Leica S2: the new paradigm for post-modern photography?

[tml]

Dennis, thanks for the rescue. BTW, if you are still looking for a 50 Lux ASPH, I have seen a few for sale on: The GetDPI Photography Forums - Powered by vBulletin. I bought a used 50 Lux pre ASPH ver 3 because I could not justify the cost of the ASPH. Tri.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Wonder if they are selling or leasing these? $28K on Amazon with an upgraded service package and one lens. Sensor is stuck between a 35mm and MF size so rather not this nor that, and like mentioned before you just can't pop an upgraded sensor onto the body like you can with a Blad or Mamiya/Phase 1.

BTW that Blog is pure pretentious bs.

Yeah Leica is a great camera with a long history but I just don't see what is being offered as being worth the $$.
Leica S2 with 56% larger sensor than full frame: Digital Photography Review
here is a bit of a better review:
Leica S2 First Impressions
also shows prices on the gear and lenses. So for a pretty full kit your pushing $40+K

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by PeteQ

...And I am sorry but I don't buy the "unique" qualities of a Leica lens. I would bet my last dollar that you or anyone here would be unable to consistently select the images that had been shot with a Leica lens from a larger set of images. ...

There was a story a year or so ago on the luminous landscape that took this disparity to extreme. Not with Leica glass, but with images made with H2-with Phase one +45 back vs G-10.

Over a two day period I invited photographers and local industry professionals to come to my print studio and look at a series of 13X19" prints from an Epson 3800 printer made on Ilford Gold Fiber Silk paper which were then hung side by side on my floor-standing print viewing box. This collection of seven people included experienced photographers, people from the commercial print industry, and other trade professionals. Between them there was at least 200 years of photographic industry shooting and printing experience.

In most cases I did not tell them what they were looking at, simply saying that I had been shooting with two cameras, and that they should divide the prints (about a dozen) into two piles – Camera A and Camera B. They were asked to judge resolution, accutance, colour reproduction, highlight detail, dMax, and any other factors that they wished to consider.

In every case no one could reliably tell the difference between 13X19" prints shot with the $40,000 Hasselblad and Phase One 39 Megapixel back, and the new $500 Canon G10. In the end no one got more than 60% right, and overall the split was about 50 / 50, with no clear differentiator. In other words, no better than chance.

In fact it was the H2 system's narrower depth of field that occasionally was the only clear give-away. Some viewers eventually figured out that the prints with the narrower depth of field were from medium format, while other photographers chose the G10 images because with its wider depth of field it created an overall impression of greater sharpness.

The Results
Needless to say there was much shaking of heads and muttering. Could this be? Could a $500 digicam equal a $40,000 medium format digital system in image quality, at least in prints up to 13X19" (Super A3)?

the whole article is here:
Kidding

[jeffkohn]

I have no criticism of the S2 or of people who want to spend their money on Leica in general. Lord knows I've dropped more than my share of dough on Nikon gear, and I'm just a hobbyist. My contempt was aimed at the flowery prose in the review.

I think the S2 probably has a place as a "tweener" between 35mm DSLR and traditional medium-format digital, the question is whether pros will be willing to put their faith in Leica to create a dealer network with the necessary support, rentals, etc.

As for the "magic" in Leica glass, I suggest anyone in doubt take a look at the MTF charts for the S-series lenses. Truly amazing.

[JohnT]

Leica interests me, and I'd like to own and use one for a while to see if it's for me. If it's one's brand of choice, that's great. Just please don't be pretentious and pompous about it. A Leica is a tool like Canon, Nikon, Olympus, etc. are tools.

That's my two cents.

[d2creative]

Originally Posted by tml

Dennis, thanks for the rescue. BTW, if you are still looking for a 50 Lux ASPH, I have seen a few for sale on: The GetDPI Photography Forums - Powered by vBulletin. I bought a used 50 Lux pre ASPH ver 3 because I could not justify the cost of the ASPH. Tri.

Thanks, I'll take a look.
But I'll probably just end up with the current 'cron.
Especially after reading Steve Huff's reviews.

[tml]

Dennis, you cannot go wrong with the 35 cron at all. After all, isn't it supposed to be the King of Bokeh? I will probably catch some more flack for this statement! Tri.

[PeteQ]

Originally Posted by jeffkohn

...the question is whether pros will be willing to put their faith in Leica to create a dealer network with the necessary support, rentals, etc. .

In NYC they are not. No expandability and it would mean buying a whole new line of lenses for most medium format commercial photographers. Seal was given one at the M9 launch party but if you look at most fashion and commercial photographers around here they aren't jumping on it. In the article linked below MR also highlights some of the issues that have been mentioned here that would affect it's use by most commercial photographers, the traditional base for a camera in this class.

Originally Posted by jeffkohn

As for the "magic" in Leica glass, I suggest anyone in doubt take a look at the MTF charts for the S-series lenses. Truly amazing.

Yes, the charts show that Leica builds wonderful lenses, but my point is, and it was already pointed out from another MR article above, is that in most cases the differences in today's glass is much smaller and affects overall IQ much less than in the past and is rarely an issue and can almost never been seen in the final print.

And what is really interesting is that people here would rip a 35mm dslr to shreds for the iso performance the S2 displays. Leica S@ Field and Studio Review.

And fwiw, I don't despise the Leica's or their owners as a whole, it's the pretentiousness of some that tend to draw my ire, like the blogger, pure self aggrandizing fluff. I think people should buy and shoot what they want, just don't expect everyone else to be impressed with a bad snapshot from an expensive camera. A pile of poo is a pile of poo no matter how it got there...

The bottom line is that if you have the money and are looking for a medium format camera class camera from a manufacturer named Leica, the S2 is a great choice. Like anything else, if it fits your needs (defined by oneself) then buy one today and enjoy.

[d2creative]

Originally Posted by tml

Dennis, you cannot go wrong with the 35 cron at all. After all, isn't it supposed to be the King of Bokeh? I will probably catch some more flack for this statement! Tri.

Sorry, i meant the newest 50 'cron (instead of the lux).

[tml]

Dennis. 50 is a perfect match for an M9! I just bought a used mint Macro-Elmarit 60 f/2.8 for only $450 to use with my Canon. I cannot wait to see if I can discern any significant improvement in bokeh character, color rendition and sharpness compared to my fabulous canon 100 mm macro. Tri.

[Murph]

Just a brilliant post, it is the complete self aggrandizement and pretentiousness of many Leica owners that annoys the heck out of me.

Originally Posted by PeteQ

In NYC they are not. No expandability and it would mean buying a whole new line of lenses for most medium format commercial photographers. Seal was given one at the M9 launch party but if you look at most fashion and commercial photographers around here they aren't jumping on it. In the article linked below MR also highlights some of the issues that have been mentioned here that would affect it's use by most commercial photographers, the traditional base for a camera in this class.


Yes, the charts show that Leica builds wonderful lenses, but my point is, and it was already pointed out from another MR article above, is that in most cases the differences in today's glass is much smaller and affects overall IQ much less than in the past and is rarely an issue and can almost never been seen in the final print.

And what is really interesting is that people here would rip a 35mm dslr to shreds for the iso performance the S2 displays. Leica S@ Field and Studio Review.

And fwiw, I don't despise the Leica's or their owners as a whole, it's the pretentiousness of some that tend to draw my ire, like the blogger, pure self aggrandizing fluff. I think people should buy and shoot what they want, just don't expect everyone else to be impressed with a bad snapshot from an expensive camera. A pile of poo is a pile of poo no matter how it got there...

The bottom line is that if you have the money and are looking for a medium format camera class camera from a manufacturer named Leica, the S2 is a great choice. Like anything else, if it fits your needs (defined by oneself) then buy one today and enjoy.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by tml

Dennis, you cannot go wrong with the 35 cron at all. After all, isn't it supposed to be the King of Bokeh? I will probably catch some more flack for this statement! Tri.

It is the IV which the King. Production started in 1979.

Every serious Leicaphile needs a copy of "The Leica Lens Compendium."

Free download here

[tml]

Stovall, after all, they are from the same lineage! I guess am not a serious Leicaphile yet! BTW, did you know that even Leicas do not come with a part called "sphincter pupillae?" You will not find this definition in the Leica Lens Compendium, only in Gray's Anatomy... Be nice, Stovall, will you? Tri.

[msk2193]

Great statement. Could not have said it better.
Hear Hear

Originally Posted by tml

I hate to chime in again, but the reason most people who buy Leica cameras because they like to use Leica lenses which have a "unique" way of rendering a subject. There is not a best camera, or a best sensor... Ultimately, it is the photographer/artist who makes the photo, not the camera. I have taken good shots and a lot more bad shots with "expensive" canon gear as well as Leica gear. People should not feel ashamed of having paid a lot of money for what they want. This applies to everything else in life, not just camera equipments! Besides, not all Leica users are "rich". I know that I have a good income because I work very hard, but I am by no means loaded! Tri.

[msk2193]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Leica interests me, and I'd like to own and use one for a while to see if it's for me. If it's one's brand of choice, that's great. Just please don't be pretentious and pompous about it. A Leica is a tool like Canon, Nikon, Olympus, etc. are tools.

That's my two cents.

Head over to Arlington Camera and ask them to test drive the Leica rep's unit. Did just that and ordered the M9 plus three lenses. Still on the list for one of those lenses, but the rest has been doing great!