Lens and new body based on rebates.

[Duffy Pratt]

You already have the 70-200 f/4 and the 85 1.8. The upgrades you are considering will both buy you an extra stop, and nicer bokeh. The zoom also will give you significantly faster focusing. But otherwise, they aren't all that much different from what you already have. So, I would say get the upgrade on the one you now use the most. I can't answer that, but with your line-up of primes, I think you would probably enjoy filling the prime gap first. From previous posts, I know you have been lusting after the 85 1.2 anyways.

Personally, I would go with the zoom frist, but I perfectly understand choosing either way. I would pick the zoom becuase I think its better suited to certain kinds of action photography that I favor, but I don't see much of that in your galleries. (I really like the Dr. Pepper shot, BTW).

I am curious about why you would give up on the 20D. For some things, I think having the 1.6 crop factor is an advantage, especially if you want to get _really_ long with your 400mm. Ideally, I would have both a full frame and a 1.6 body (or two of each!).

Duffy

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by venchka

OOPS! My bad. I re-read the poll entry. No worries. It's still a load. Support required. YMMV.

You are thinking about the 70-200 2.8 L IS right? Have you ever handled one? It's a handful. Early and late in the day you'll want a monopod minimum and tripod mostly. Other than that, go for it! It covers a lot of ground until you get the 85/1.2 L.

A tripod lives in my car....

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt

You already have the 70-200 f/4 and the 85 1.8. The upgrades you are considering will both buy you an extra stop, and nicer bokeh. The zoom also will give you significantly faster focusing. But otherwise, they aren't all that much different from what you already have. So, I would say get the upgrade on the one you now use the most. I can't answer that, but with your line-up of primes, I think you would probably enjoy filling the prime gap first. From previous posts, I know you have been lusting after the 85 1.2 anyways.

Personally, I would go with the zoom frist, but I perfectly understand choosing either way. I would pick the zoom becuase I think its better suited to certain kinds of action photography that I favor, but I don't see much of that in your galleries. (I really like the Dr. Pepper shot, BTW).

I am curious about why you would give up on the 20D. For some things, I think having the 1.6 crop factor is an advantage, especially if you want to get _really_ long with your 400mm. Ideally, I would have both a full frame and a 1.6 body (or two of each!).

Duffy

The 20D doesn't really give any extra length just a crop and I would rather have two bodies where I don't have to consider the crop factor.

[Duffy Pratt]

"The 20D doesn't really give any extra length just a crop and I would rather have two bodies where I don't have to consider the crop factor."

It is "just a crop," but remember that it is a crop that is done at the resolving power of the lens. The cropped area from the lens on a 1.6 camera still outresolves the 5D sensor, so the image resolution of a crop to a 1.6 shot from a 5D should not be as good as the same image taken with a 20D. Of course, there will come a point where a crop from a full frame camera will outperform an uncropped shot from a 1.6 camera, but I don't think the 5D is even close to there.

From what I've read, the best sensors started to surpass the finest lenses in resolving power at about 33-35 megapixels. That was in medium format. I don't know where that break point is for 35mm lenses, or if any existing camera has 'outresolved' the available lenses.

Even so, your oher reason for wanting two 5Ds is perfectly sound. You have the one really nice picture of the bird fliying, but it looks to me like your main interests lie elsewhere. I'm thinking about having both bodies to save money on primes (using a 50, for example as either a 50 or an 85, depending on body, for example). If you have all the primes covered anyway, then that's not a consideration.

Duffy

[JohnT]

Voted 70-200 for versatility and image quality. My non-IS version performs wonderfully.

[Mike G]

so the 70-200 would be for shooting road kill that stinks too bad to get close to?

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt

Even so, your oher reason for wanting two 5Ds is perfectly sound. You have the one really nice picture of the bird fliying, but it looks to me like your main interests lie elsewhere. I'm thinking about having both bodies to save money on primes (using a 50, for example as either a 50 or an 85, depending on body, for example). If you have all the primes covered anyway, then that's not a consideration.
Duffy

Good stuff Duffy. I've always wanted to have two bodies... one with FF and one with the 1.6x factor. That way, you have a lot of versatility. You can instantly turn a 300mm f/2.8 lens into a 480mm f/2.8 lens just by switching bodies. And then, you have the wide angle benefits on the FF body. I think it's a great model. And like you said, you can just take a prime and put it on the other body and it becomes a different prime. Too bad they (Canon) aren't making the bodies (20D, 30D, etc.) sealed and "beefy" like their pro-level ones.

- Wil

[TXhummer2]

85/f1.2

but, that's just me wishin

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by nitromike

so the 70-200 would be for shooting road kill that stinks too bad to get close to?

Nope, just rub Vicks on my mustach and put the fly net over my Tilley hat and get closer with the wides...

Got to do what Capa said....

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by ParkImaging

Good stuff Duffy. I've always wanted to have two bodies... one with FF and one with the 1.6x factor. That way, you have a lot of versatility. You can instantly turn a 300mm f/2.8 lens into a 480mm f/2.8 lens just by switching bodies. And then, you have the wide angle benefits on the FF body. I think it's a great model. And like you said, you can just take a prime and put it on the other body and it becomes a different prime. Too bad they (Canon) aren't making the bodies (20D, 30D, etc.) sealed and "beefy" like their pro-level ones.

- Wil

But you don't get the 480 you are just shooting a cropped 300. The prespective and compress aren't the same nor is the DOF...

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

But you don't get the 480 you are just shooting a cropped 300. The prespective and compress aren't the same nor is the DOF...

I agree. For awhile, I had a 5D and (2) 20Ds...Although I liked the extra reach of the 20D...I preferred the FF for my style of photography, so I sold the 20D's and got a second 5D. I will be adding a 1.4 extender for my 70-200IS at some point in the future when I need a little extra reach.

Not knocking the 20D/30D's at all. They are great cameras.. The 5D just fit my shooting habits a bit better (for now).

[Duffy Pratt]

Perspective is a matter of camera placement, and not the focal length of the lens. If you had a 300 with a 1.6 crop and a 480 on a full frame, and you shot them from the same position, then the perspective would be the same. The depth of field on the 300 would be greater, given the same apertures.

For some kinds of sports and action photography, this would be an advantage for the crop factor. Too narrow a depth of field can ruin some kinds of action shots. (Of course, the opposite is also true in some situations, where you might want the narrower depth of field at the same distance.)

So, its not true to say that a 200mm lens on a 1.6 crop is the same as a 320mm on a full frame. The two lenses (assuming you could get a 320) behave a bit differently. That isn't to say that one is better than the other, just different.

Duffy

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Duffy,

Yes, I completely agree. I was only comparing focal lenghts achieved; not the variances in DOF.

- Wil

[txphotog]

If you really fond of primes go with the 85 1.2. I had a chance to use one the other day in a store and the depth of field is insane. Beautiful shots and great color.

[johnastovall]

Well it looks like I'm going to see about getting the 70-200/2.8L IS and a 5D. That would finish out my zoom needs. If I can get both from Amazon, I can get Amazon gift cards to be applied to the 82/1.2MkII and get a rebate on it. It's all going to be a matter of timing.