What mode?

[rbalcom]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

Almost always manual mode. Your camera wants to give each image an "averaged" exposure. If you are not satisfied with "average" images learn to use manual exposure mode.

Don, this discussion always tends to get me lost; maybe it is just me and my lack of understanding of creative techniques, or maybe it is a generalization on everyone else's part that shooting in any other mode than manual means that you just take what the camera gives you. Is there really a difference between shooting manual or using Tv or Av with selective metering modes, exposure and focus lock, and exposure compensation available on today's SLRs?

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by rbalcom

Don, this discussion always tends to get me lost; maybe it is just me and my lack of understanding of creative techniques, or maybe it is a generalization on everyone else's part that shooting in any other mode than manual means that you just take what the camera gives you. Is there really a difference between shooting manual or using Tv or Av with selective metering modes, exposure and focus lock, and exposure compensation available on today's SLRs?

The short answer is yes there is a difference. Any time you take a reflective meter reading (and ALL in camera meters are reflective) the meter assumes the scene is 18% gray and will give you the proper exposure to render the image as an 18% gray image. In most situations this is not a problem, however when you get into high key situations such as snow scenes and white sand beaches or low key lush deep green forests, the reading provided by your in camera meter will not render the image properly.

Personally I almost never use the meter in my cameras and prefer to use a hand held incident meter. That way I know that I am reading the light striking the subject and it is not influenced by whether the subject is light or dark. And whether you are using program (P), aperture priority (Av), shutter priority (Tv), evaluative, spot, or whatever you are indeed at the mercy of the scene and how your meter reads and interpolates it. Use of an incident meter is not always possible and many seasoned Pros know when to use exposure compensation or when to spot meter an 18% area and adjust accordingly.

[KJ Smith]

What Don says is exactly right. But I always wonder just how many people who say they are in manual mode are still using the internal meter.

As I said above, it is the Photographers responsibility to recognize the situations that will fool his camera, and adjust for them.

Some of the sports shooters on this site shoot in manual.
Their explanation for it is they set their exposure for the players on the field when they get there. That way when they are following/panning a player, their meters wont jump around and they get the exposure correct for their subject.

That makes a lot of sense to me and I can see where it applies to other situations.

Kevin

[rbalcom]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

Personally I almost never use the meter in my cameras and prefer to use a hand held incident meter. That way I know that I am reading the light striking the subject and it is not influenced by whether the subject is light or dark. And whether you are using program (P), aperture priority (Av), shutter priority (Tv), evaluative, spot, or whatever you are indeed at the mercy of the scene and how your meter reads and interpolates it. Use of an incident meter is not always possible and many seasoned Pros know when to use exposure compensation or when to spot meter an 18% area and adjust accordingly.

Thanks, Don. I understand the difference between reflected metering and incident metering; I just didn't relate not using the camera's meter to putting it in manual.

[JonD25]

Perhaps this is best suited for another thread, but I think it has some relevance since flash interacts differently with different camera modes. The discussion came up on another group I frequent about TTL flash vs. Manual flash. What do you guys tend to use? Do you find TTL to be unreliable/inconsistent?

[Ahh!]

Originally Posted by KJ Smith

What Don says is exactly right. But I always wonder just how many people who say they are in manual mode are still using the internal meter.
As I said above, it is the Photographers responsibility to recognize the situations that will fool his camera, and adjust for them.
Some of the sports shooters on this site shoot in manual.
Their explanation for it is they set their exposure for the players on the field when they get there.

I keep looking for an opportunity to have a professional disagreement with Don in hopes I will look so smart, but this is not yet one of them. Yet, in many cases, I fall to Av mode (as he is all too painfully aware) or worse, P mode (and that is not P for Professional) when I post stuff just for fun. It means I shoot almost exclusively in RAW and have post processing challenges from time to time with which to deal.
In run-and-gun-mode, I am manipulating the light, light-to-subject-distances, and more, so there IS always going to be a place for all those other modes (oh, boy, here it comes) or at least the in-camera meter. Heck, I use it with a Expodisk at my peril when I am without my Sekonic. It's thinner, lighter and more expendable. That's right, the Sekonic is indespensible.

Just to be clear, if you have the time, or you can confine your shooting to consistent lighting conditions between incident readings, incident light readings will nail the people shots, everytime. But there are times and reasons to pray that your camera's meter, and all that expensive computer stuff that the manufactures are coming up with may just be the way to go..or frankly, the gap needs to be filled by the photographer at the controls. And for that I am truly greatful. But shoot in RAW, too! It won't save you everytime, but...

[Ahh!]

Originally Posted by JonD25

Perhaps this is best suited for another thread, but I think it has some relevance since flash interacts differently with different camera modes. The discussion came up on another group I frequent about TTL flash vs. Manual flash. What do you guys tend to use? Do you find TTL to be unreliable/inconsistent?

Do I use TTL? Yes, at my peril. Short answer to the last question: YES.
There is a CLS "class" I am attending Wednesday in Arlington that I hope will shed some more light on my situation/equipment, so I hope I will get more consistent results. But, NO, I can't get what I want yet that way any more than I can with Av Tv or P with the in-camera meter and software with out bailing myself out with RAW from time-to-time.

[JonD25]

I should clarify my question too. I'm mostly interested in on camera flash at location shoots. By "on camera", I don't mean the pop up, but an external, dedicated flash unit like the 580EX mounted on top of the camera. My thoughts are that when the subject or the shooter is always moving, manual flash would be inconsistent unless you were on top of it at all times while moving. Thus TTL would be the better or at least easier option. But then again, with my experience with the camera's auto modes, it's hard to trust TTL. Just wondering what everyone else's experience is.

[KJ Smith]

Well, I may not be the best person to answer this, I do not use flash that often.

When I do use my 580, its TTL and I control the output on the flash by turning it down anywhere from 2/3 to 2 stops on the flash.
I always use rear curtain flash.

Thats what works for me.

Kevin

[Dakinetx]

Nikon shooter here so can't really help above. But I have taken to having my flash SB-800 OFF camera. YES I still use the lil pop-up for fill during daylight at times, it just works. But getting deeper into understanding light and how it effects an image (really an image IS all light as it is obviously light hitting film or a sensor) is such a huge subject ya gotta get ya feet wet sometime. To me anyway, as complicated as a dSLR can be it is akin to a P&S when using "auto" modes and onboard flash unit. I am not calling myself a strobist by any means (I still find "some" of their recommened bare esssentials TOO much for my rig) but I do love the choices off camera flash provides and the absolute joy and or horror learning how to implement such a powerful tool can produce :)
To me, flash is almost MORE to understand than the camera itself.

[Ahh!]

Originally Posted by JonD25

...manual flash would be inconsistent unless...Just wondering what everyone else's experience is.

Ditto.
But I still use it as another tool and depend on RAW and post processing.