Fill Flash

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy

Well that depends on the shutter speed and amount of ambient light right?

I was talking about a studio lighting situation where your shutter speed would have to be below 1/8th sec. for ambient light to begin to make any difference.

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy

Huh? Don, why are you saying that's 1:3? It's 1:2.

I believe that I did say that it was one to two and the rest of your response I found totally confusing.

[TJPhotoGuy]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

I believe that I did say that it was one to two

Here it is - if it was a typo, then no worries. But we have to be careful and concise here with someone who's a new person asking about lighting advice, one of the more complicated aspects of photography:

Originally Posted by bondarnes

If we increase the intensity of the main light to f 11 we now have a one to three ratio..

Originally Posted by bondarnes

and the rest of you response I found totally confusing.

Why? what's confusing about it?

[bondarnes]

You asked that I not critique your work and I have respecfully honored that request. Now I respectfully request that you not reply to any of my posts. I don't appreciate the fact that you quoted me and then responded to another sentence that was not in your quote.

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by jecaph

You've guys have answered it perfectly. So, I am assuming that fill flash is used mostly for close ups, people and portraits?

Fill flash can be used in any situation, if you have enough lighting power to be effective. I even use fill flash on sports groups like football teams. I put the team in the bleachers which face north/northeast. in the afternoon the sun will be behind them and to their left. I use a Lumedyne 400 w.s. strobe and a shutter speed of 1/500th sec. the f stop is usually 9.5 or 11. That much power can fill in even on a group that large.

[TJPhotoGuy]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

You asked that I not critique your work and I have respecfully honored that request. Now I respectfully request that you not reply to any of my posts. I don't appreciate the fact that you quoted me and then responded to another sentence that was not in your quote.

Huh? Don, what are you talking about?

All I did was correct something you said - you said that f/11 and f/8 make for a 1:3 ratio; it doesn't, it makes for 1:2. What's so bad about doing that? Are you asking that you be allowed to post information to a completely new person that is absolutely incorrect??

[bfphoto]

OK, back to lighting ratios. Here is a link that will give a very good explaination.
http://www.vividlight.com/articles/1916.htm
Way back when I was going to a lot of seminars, every professional seemed to have a different way of explaining lighting rations. The explaination here is the one I remember best.

Remember this only sets the ratio. To get the correct exposure, fire both lights with the light meter dome pointed at the camera. This will give you the correct exposure, that is, if your meter is calibrated correctly. That's another lesson.

[simon]

Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy

Huh? Don, what are you talking about?

All I did was correct something you said - you said that f/11 and f/8 make for a 1:3 ratio; it doesn't, it makes for 1:2. What's so bad about doing that? Are you asking that you be allowed to post information to a completely new person that is absolutely incorrect??

This is confusing me because as far as I can see he didn't say what you are claiming he said. What he did was describe a situation where the ratio was 1:2 with a light set at f/8 and then said that if you increase the light to f/11 (all else being equal), the ratio will increase from 1:2 to 1:3.

Clearly increasing that light will increase the ratio. Are you saying his original situation wasn't 1:2? The way he described it made sense to me, and I know *nothing* about studio lighting...

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by bfphoto

Remember this only sets the ratio. To get the correct exposure, fire both lights with the light meter dome pointed at the camera. This will give you the correct exposure, that is, if your meter is calibrated correctly. That's another lesson.

Pointing the dome at the camera will give you a correct exposure on negative film. However, it has been my experience with transparency film and digital capture you get a more accurate reading by pointing the dome (I actually use the flat disc) at the main light. That is what I was taught by Dean Collins.

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by simon

This is confusing me because as far as I can see he didn't say what you are claiming he said. What he did was describe a situation where the ratio was 1:2 with a light set at f/8 and then said that if you increase the light to f/11 (all else being equal), the ratio will increase from 1:2 to 1:3.

Clearly increasing that light will increase the ratio. Are you saying his original situation wasn't 1:2? The way he described it made sense to me, and I know *nothing* about studio lighting...

Simon,

I only repeated what I have been taught over the last forty years by people like the late Dean Collins, Frank Cricchio, Joe Craig, and many others. Now if today's crop of new instructors is teaching it differently, then I have to revert to my original post where I stated that you don't have to fully understand the math and physics to be able to create the lighting patterns that you like. And I am not going to degrade this forum by responding to a post that suggests that I am wrong and must be corrected because someone else has a different opinion. Let's move on.

[simon]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

Simon,

I only repeated what I have been taught over the last forty years by people like the late Dean Collins, Frank Cricchio, Joe Craig, and many others. Now if today's crop of new instructors is teaching it differently, then I have to revert to my original post where I stated that you don't have to fully understand the math and physics to be able to create the lighting patterns that you like. And I am not going to degrade this forum by responding to a post that suggests that I am wrong and must be corrected because someone else has a different opinion. Let's move on.

Ok, no problem. I'm not worried about the confusion. I don't do studio lighting, but this stuff is all pretty straightforward and I've got the background to work it all out from first principles if I need it. I was just trying to clarify a seeming contradiction, but it isn't important enough to blow up a subthread on!

I will note for any others reading this that the computations involved really aren't very complicated, so don't let it intimidate you if you are interested. As noted here though, you certainly don't need to work out all the details to take photos....

[bfphoto]

Don,
You and I have been to a lot of the same seminars and yes I remember being taught that you point the dome at the main light to set the exposure. Before that, I was taught to expose for the shadow side. The latest seminars I have been to with Will Crockett, stress pointing the dome toward the subject if you want a correct exposure on the face. So far, this has been working pretty well for me.

Back to ratios. Based on your example of f8 for fill, the key light should read as follows:

Main Fill
f8 f8 = 1:1
f11 f8 = 2:1 1 stop
f11 1/2 f8 = 3:1 1 and 1/2 stops more
f16 f8 = 4:1 2 stops
f16 1/2 f8 = 5:1 2 and 1/2 stops more
f22 f8 = 6:1 3 stops more

I don't remember the exact math formula, but to increase the ratio by one point, you just increase the main light by 1/2 f stop. I have this in a book somewhere, and I will try to find it.

Bill

[Daniel Bates]

Well, I don't understand this lighting stuff very much either. But my club does have a full studio setup, so hopefully I'll be able to practice on someone else's gear.