Fresnels and Hollywood 30's & 40's type lighting...

[jbrem]

Hello,
I am really interested in to shooting Hurrell-esque photos and was wondering if anyone had any experience using Fresnels to light these type of images. I was looking on E-bay and saw that they had these lights(continous source of course) for relatively cheap prices. What are y'alls' ideas on these? thanks
Joshua

[srwatters]

Here's a couple I shot at one of Rolando's workshops back in 2005.





The dramatic light falloff can yield some amazing results. Hensel monolight inside of a different manufacturers fresnel. More on the Hensel here http://www.henselusa.com/fresnel.html

[Junderwood]

I have lit scenes, people for theater/stage, TV and photo using fresnels of various types and configurations. You can create a lot of different looks. Be careful what you buy. Do your homework first, Hensel's are good, but there are other options.

i generally refrain from making specific recommendation because careful homework will provide you with a good learning experience before you ever purchase you first light.

[jbrem]

Thank you Scott. I love the look of those images. How did you like Rollando's workshop? I've been trying to get into some kind of workshop but they all fall when I am working and unfortunately, my job is not the kind that I can just take time off from. But anyways, thanks for the examples and I think that they are exactly what I'm looking for. By the way, you said Hensel Monolights inside of a different manufacturer's fresnel, that would mean basically that they were strobes with a fresnel lens? Thanks again,
Joshua

[jbrem]

Thank you Joe. Your words are great advice. It's good to hear opinions from someone who has experience with the equipment...

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

To be honest all the good fresnels that I have seen are NOT CHEAP and there is a reason, they are made to take a lot of abuse in the real world-to be honest accidents do happen even when the best lighting man is working and the best teamster is moving things around and the good fresnels are made to take a lot of pounding and still producing because down time on a movie set is expensive time. So if you find a "cheap" fresnel don't expect much, other than maybe a great buy on an older used setup that has been retired from the industry.

Didn't some of the old big spotlight type set ups use an arcing process to produce light? Kind of like the old WWII searchlights. Remember coming across a movie shoot at the old Alamo location out in west texas and they were using some very bright big fresnels to light the shot even though it was full sun/clear sky that day.

[Bill]

There is a book titled "Hollywood Portraits" that came out in 2000. Every photo has an illustration showing the authors' estimate of the type and location of the lighting. They talk about fresnels and other lighting. Looked pretty good to me. I do not remember the authors names. Two guys.

They mention that in the earliest days of the movie industry the photographers used the carbon arcs that illuminated the sets. Too many sunburns from the high UV output of 10K Klieg lights!

The look was derived not just from the lighting but the film, development, and negative retouching, also. Virtually all the shots in the industry and the book were taken on 8 x 10 film. Another important part of the look came from the lenses. Uncoated and with enough aberrations to give a very pleasing look. Good discussion on these other factors.

The book covers techniques from the 20's through the 50's or 60's, I believe. Maybe some later. Lots of pix, including Clara, Lillian, Rudolph, Jean, Clark, Claudette, Audrey, Elvis, Sophia, Spencer, Lauren, Buster, Mae, and Elizabeth, of course.

Bill

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

So lets kick this back current again.

Anybody else have experience of using fresnel lights?
(back when this discussion was going on there were maybe 5,000 members on the forumn).

Does anybody know for sure if they have used fresnels on the centerfold shoots at Playboy? I've heard rumours that they have but never an actual confirmation.

Sometimes continious lighting is the best way to shoot a still scene. (can always add a flash or two or three/etc to pop in light into various spots)

[Daniel W.]

I work with Fresnels for theatrical lighting. They are hot! (Leather / nomex gloves are a MUST, no question. (We melt all sorts of things on them by accident - tools, clothes, gels, small bits and pieces, ever see the bottom of a leatherman holster scorched to death?. Prolonged use under over-wattage can scorch the fixture itself.)

We use these by the dozen. Usually 6-10 on each side of the stage and 12-20 flown above the stage center.

I have a few broken ones (bad lamp base) at my disposal and I've been thinking about somehow mounting a strobe to it, essentially once you remove the ceramic lampholder you have the room to stick in a small strobe, maybe a speedlite with a omnibounce? You'd have to crank the power... But in standard op it's a bare bulb behind glass with a small pan reflector (or not, depending on the quality of the light), not too hard to replicate in theory.

You'd also have to rig a fashion of keeping it on a stand, they're pretty imbalanced and clunky to lock down.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Oh they do get HOT when you are blasting 5K or more watts through them constantly (some have blowers in them but most don't) but there are some that use a flash type bulb that can be fired off of a power pack. Norman makes one that works off of their 900 series packs (also 2000 I believe).

But sometimes having a constant light source to shoot a model gives you the best look because you can get the light exactly the way that you want it. (just keep these a distance away from the model and anything combustable).

Since you said that you have several housings I bet you can get some sort of halogen bulbs to work in these and make use of the lens' capabilities. Not sure how a flash gun would work- bet it would overheat if you are firing to often unless you add some sort of fan.

[prairiefire]

I've got a 10" Mole Richardson and 3 5" Strands -- all recycled from Hollywood film sets.

I, too, am fascinated with the work of the studio photographers like Hurrell, Karsh and Bull.

I've got to look but I think the biggest bulb I'm using in the 10" is 1,000 Watts -- I don't think any of us will need 5000 watts.

Yes, they throw some heat, but it is manageable. Stagehand gloves are a necessity.

One thing to watch for: They eat up a lot of power. When I first started using mine, I was blowing fuses all day long. To use them effectively, one has to put in separate circuits so that the big lights have a circuit of their own.

Because they are tungsten lamps, I sometimes use them in conjunction with my Profoto storbes -- using only the modeling lights on the strobes. The combination works really well.

As for lighting patterns, there are some really great, old books, showing the images -- many from Paramount -- and the lighting set ups.