Pocket Wizards a wrong decision?

[darrenwilson]

Twice in the last month or two I have stopped in at Competitive Camera in Dallas and asked about Pocket Wizards. Both times they have discuraged me from buying them and walked away empty handed.

(Well, not empty handed, because I picked up a 430ex and a Canon 24-70 2.8L on each stop.)

I really would like to start experimenting and learning how to use off-camera flash, and I never really intended to use the 430 on my camera at all. The first time, they recommended the Canon ST-E2 and the second time they suggested the cord for $80.

Now this isn't a rant against Competitive Camera, because I received top notch attention both times I've been there. I am just wondering if I am missing something here. Is there a drawback to the PW that I don't know about? I will be using my xTi and 430 and my nice L lenses. I didn't figure I could go wrong here. All that's needed is time to learn how to use it all.

What is the best way to go to a wireless with a 430? I want something that will grow with me. Thanks in advance.

[taygull]

What you are not doing is giving us the same info you gave Eugene or Ramsey.

If those guys suggest not getting something it is because they understand what you are trying to shoot based on a discussion you had with them. They may be thinking you are better off spending the money somewhere else or recognize you may get frustrated trying to control the light without ETTL. I don't know your level.

What I can say is they are the ones who convinced me I needed PW's about a year ago and I'm picking up another one on Friday.

If you don't have a light meter you need one of those..sure you can play around but until you really learn how to balance off camera light with natural light it will get frustrating.

I use off camera light a bunch. Mostly for the magazine I shoot so most of that work is not on my site.

So until we understand exactly what you are trying to shoot it would be hard to say if you need PW's. You can do off camera with a chord or many other ways.

[PeteQ]

There is no one best way to go wireless. Whether you use the Canon infrared system or Pocket Wizards or the "eBay triggers" they all have their place on the price and performance curve.

The first question is: What are your needs? Do you need the 1600 foot range of a Pocket Wizard or would the 50 foot range of an eBay trigger work? Do you want TTL metering to do all the work for your flash calculations or do you want to use manual adjustments all the time? Will the be a studio type set up or will you be trying to shoot brides running down the steps of a church?

I have Pocket Wizards and I also use the Nikon flash system. They both have their pros and cons and each situation will dictate what is best. Just like you need several sizes of screwdrivers, you needs various flash options, but the question is, "Which will I use most?"

I would recommend that you start with a Canon system. Whether it is a 580EX used as a master to control your 430 or the ST-E2 as a controller, I think you will find it the easiest and most versatile way to get going. You can use the 580 to control an off camera flash (and you can use it as a backup flash if your 430 should fail) to do some amazing work. Check out the Finding Colors website. Mike and Cody of TriCoast use primarily Canon's wireless flash system and they get some amazing images. Mike just offered a class in the DFW area. It's probably full, but I would shoot him a note about the next one! Worth every penny and you'll use his info every day.

[darrenwilson]

Good points...I am obviously not a real big talker.

1. I am a total newb with flash.
2. I will be shooting 95% outdoor portraits.
3. I think an off camera flash could help me fill in shadows in in the shade and full sun.
4. I don't know what ETTL is.
4. I am willing to learn.
5. I have patience with learning new things.
6. I don't "need" anything...just wanting to play/learn.


Thanks tallguy!

Originally Posted by taygull

What you are not doing is giving us the same info you gave Eugene or Ramsey.

If those guys suggest not getting something it is because they understand what you are trying to shoot based on a discussion you had with them. They may be thinking you are better off spending the money somewhere else or recognize you may get frustrated trying to control the light without ETTL. I don't know your level.

What I can say is they are the ones who convinced me I needed PW's about a year ago and I'm picking up another one on Friday.

If you don't have a light meter you need one of those..sure you can play around but until you really learn how to balance off camera light with natural light it will get frustrating.

I use off camera light a bunch. Mostly for the magazine I shoot so most of that work is not on my site.

So until we understand exactly what you are trying to shoot it would be hard to say if you need PW's. You can do off camera with a chord or many other ways.

[ngoduyviet]

Originally Posted by darrenwilson

Good points...I am obviously not a real big talker.
3. I think an off camera flash could help me fill in shadows in in the shade and full sun.
4. I don't know what ETTL is.
Thanks tallguy!

Based on these 2, I think they were right not recommending you the PW, yet. The Canon transmitter is much better and you can use E-TTL I/II with it. Until you learn to use E-TTL effectively, you'd get very frustrated with the PW as they are controlled manually.

[picasso]

You can use a Canon speed light on camera and set it to -1 and 1/2 or -1 and 1/3 as fill flash.
There are also good recommendations up above. I agree they probably were saving you money. Until you get to know your camera a little more and shooting with ETTL (Read your flash manual) then pocket wizards would be wasting your money. You would also probably want to use a hand held light meter if you are using pocket wizards which would set you back even more money.

Paul

[darrenwilson]

Excellent responses, all. Thanks.

So, looks like my best bet is with the Canon setup...be it corded or wireless. I've seen mixed reveiws on the ST-E2's but those were from people recommending the PWs.

Anyone here had +/- experience with these? I will be using this for portraits so I can't imagine that distance would be much of an issue, right?

[bigjon0107]

personally i would say to pick up a used (or new) 580ex, it can control your 430, but you then also have another, more powerful, flash when you need it. (ps, i use this setup in some situations and it works great...here is some examples when i used this setup)





And its all basically just shoot, it controls the light you (you might have to tweak it), but it is really easy and you don't need a flash meter to do so, like you would need in completely manual (PW's)

[fivegrand]

And I'm just the opposite from many...

I say get the PW's and learn the photography. That means learning the light.

You won't learn what light ratios *really* mean until you meter, set and adjust for yourself, instead of having a Tokyo software engineer's algorhythm do it for you.

But then I'm also one of those "cranky old farts" (even though I'm only 34) on all the other boards that advocates full manual camera operation.

If

4. I am willing to learn.

is true, do everything manually, learn the principles and balances, learn by trial and error what works and what doesn't, *take notes* and THEN relax to the auto/TTL modes.

:)

[darrenwilson]

thanks, fivegrand.

I have decided to hold off for a while on any new purchases. I am going to commit to spending a few months learning what I have for for I buy something new. I figure one variable at a time.

I do appreciate everyone's comments. I also want to make sure I don't come off as anti-Competitive Camera. Turns out, their initial recommendation was spot on. I will be back there when I am ready to make my next purchase.

Thanks all.

[ShaneKislack]

Ramsey is big on the Elinchrome's now. They are great transmitters...but

1. are overkill
2. are best with elinchrome strobes.

Pocketwizards seem to be the industry standard and every top pro I've worked with in this market, Chicago, and San Fran are using them. But if you aren't planning on using strobes...then no, you do not need pocket wizards.

[Arlington Camera]

In this case I would have done the same. PW a great tool and were not what you needed. FYI-- Elinchrom will release a El-Skypost wireless soon and while it will not out sell PW it is a better tool on new Elinchrom Lights. -- FYI

[Donner]

Originally Posted by bigjon0107

personally i would say to pick up a used (or new) 580ex, it can control your 430, but you then also have another, more powerful, flash when you need it.

I think Bigjon has the right idea. The 580ex controls the 430, so you are covered for wireless, and it's a better flash in general. Another added bonus is that if you eventually move up to a pocketwizard setup, you've got another flash to throw off-camera.


If you pick up your manual, you maybe search around online for the 580ex manual, you'll get a better idea of how to make the flashes work together to accomplish your off-camera setup. And just so you know, you can set the 580ex to trigger the 430 without actually firing, so it wont add any light to the setup if you don't want it to. In that instance it works just like the ST-E2, but gives you the option of more light if you ever need it, which the ST-E2 doesn't.

It'd be more money than you might want to spend, but a 580ex is a solid investment overall.

[picasso]

http://www.radiopopper.com/ Wireless ETTL like Pocket Wizards but the ability to work with Nikon or Canon flash systems. There not out yet and there is some speculation as to if this guy can do it but, I have spoken with him through email and he seems very serious and seems to know what he is talking about. Also, Mike w/Tricoast seems to know him also and confirmed on another board that he has talked to him and that the guy is at least someone to take seriously.

Paul

[barP]

just bought a quantum from competitive and went with the elincrom on ramsey's recommendation. his explanation is that for a time, pw were sort of a monopoly, but that elincrom now has an equivalent at half the price. i don't get all the functionality that the quantum has (qttl) but i think it will be fine.

wp.