Add more Bees or start upgrading?

[d2creative]

Right now I have an AB800 and two AB400s as well as various modifiers.
I was thinking of adding another light or two and was wondering if any new lights I buy should be higher quality. Then eventually I would replace the current Bees with the same higher quality lights to match. Would White Lightening be a worthwhile upgrade over the Bees? Because if I stick with Paul Bluff products I can use the same modifiers. If I go with a whole new brand I need new softboxes, barn doors, etc.

So if you were going to slowly upgrade your Bees, would you go with White Lightening saving money on modifiers, or go a step further and upgrade to photogenic, norman, etc?

If it matters, I shoot product shots and such in studio, but sometimes I also need to bring my lights on location for the odd corporate portrait and stuff. And this is a freelance type thing, I don't support myself with photography.

TIA!

[luis_relampago]

What's wrong with the bees?

[d2creative]

Originally Posted by luis_relampago

What's wrong with the bees?

They were great to start me off, but I keep hearing how more professional lights are more consistent and built better. Plus I would like a better modeling light and a stepped digital power adjustment would be a nice bonus. The alien bees modeling lamps are kinda week.

I just figure it might be better to invest in even better lighting from here on out. Especially with a lot of setup and tear down that i do.

[movingex]

Originally Posted by d2creative

They were great to start me off, but I keep hearing how more professional lights are more consistent and built better. Plus I would like a better modeling light and a stepped digital power adjustment would be a nice bonus. The alien bees modeling lamps are kinda week.

I just figure it might be better to invest in even better lighting from here on out. Especially with a lot of setup and tear down that i do.

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to spend more $$.

Are the more expensive lights going to make you a better photographer or increase your income?

Sometimes I get the bug and I know it doesn't make any sense but I go for what I want anyway.

[iCe]

Personally... I like Photogenics for their repeatability and the modeling lamp is a "real" modeling lamp not a back porch light. You only have to change the speed ring. Not the entire back plate...

[bondarnes]

I have Photogenics and White Lightnings. They are both great lights. You can't go wrong with either. And the Bees would make great accent lights.

[d2creative]

Originally Posted by movingex

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to spend more $$.

Sorry if that's the way it came across but I don't need an excuse.
If I want to buy something I'll buy it. I'm very good at justifying purchases on my own.
What I'm trying to do here though is make an informed decision. Basically I NEED to add at least one more light and it's a good time for me to buy smarter.

ICE, so if I ended up with photogenics I would just change out speedrings and I'd be set?
Glad to hear the modeling light is much better.

Bondarnes, that's pretty much what I was thinking/hoping... the bees would be good as accent lights. So are you saying that the photogenics and white lightnings are pretty much on par with each other? Is there anything about either of them that excels over the other?

Thanks for the info so far!

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by d2creative

Bondarnes, that's pretty much what I was thinking/hoping... the bees would be good as accent lights. So are you saying that the photogenics and white lightnings are pretty much on par with each other? Is there anything about either of them that excels over the other?

Thanks for the info so far!

Yes, if you are comparing two units with the same output they are pretty much equal. My first Photogenic was a PowerLight 600 (600 w.s.). I bought a White Lightning 1800 (1800 EFFECTIVE w.s.). For a test I put them side by side one foot from a white wall bare bulb and read the light reflected off the wall at five feet. The White Lightning was two tenths of an f-stop more powerful. So be careful of terminology.

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by iCe

Personally... I like Photogenics for their repeatability and the modeling lamp is a "real" modeling lamp not a back porch light. You only have to change the speed ring. Not the entire back plate...

Ditto.

AB's plastic turn me off (especially at the junction where they mount to stands) from using them out in the field. I really like them for value and basic studio use, but the equivalent Photogenics are not much more $ at all..and have some advantages that (in my opinion) are well worth the extra $40 or so...

[srwatters]

If you're happy with the Bees, then by all means keep on using them. I find they are lacking when you want to mount large modifiers (5'+ octobanks & 4'x6' softboxes) due to the spring loaded Balcar style mount. I also find the 150w modeling lamp limiting and requires me to use an auxiliary ambient light to shrink the subjects pupils. They are not as accurate pop to pop when used at the low and high end of their power range. The analog sliders can be difficult to deal with if you are working alone.

I have personally compared them to Norman and Hensel (both of which I now own) and prefer my current gear. Notice that I did not say they would be right for anyone else. I'm a picky geek nerd and that's that...

[davidhood]

I doubt there's much measurable difference between Photogenics and Alienbees or White lightnings, really more a personal preference and budget issue. I've heard rumor and talk about consistency, etc, but I've never read of anyone actually scientifically testing.

[srwatters]

Originally Posted by davidhood

I doubt there's much measurable difference between Photogenics and Alienbees or White lightnings, really more a personal preference and budget issue. I've heard rumor and talk about consistency, etc, but I've never read of anyone actually scientifically testing.

I may not have done a scientific test with measurement devices, but I have shot thousands of images and I can 100% prove that AB-800 lights when set to below 1/8 power are inconsistent in color temperature and output from pop to pop. I am not alone in this discovery and I have used at least 8 different AB-800 units over the last four years.

Can you prove that they are consistent?

I can also show you where my Norman ML-600R is consistent at the same output level and even lower. I often shoot headshots at -4.5 stops (out of 5.0) on this light and never do I have issues with images darker or brighter in the same position and setting. I'll be working with my new Hensel Integra Pro Plus 500's this weekend and expect to find the same results.

Long story short, it does matter to me. YMMV.

[davidhood]

Originally Posted by srwatters

Can you prove that they are consistent?

I've actually never tested it as I don't really have a need to shoot below 1/8 power. But out of curiosity I just tested an AB400 and a WL1600. My meter says that they flash at exactly the same point 75% of the time and within 1/3 stop of that point 25% of the time. The light either flashed on target or it flashed 1/3 stop over. It never flashed 1/3 stop under.

Consistency (or lack of it) below 1/8 power wasn't really much different than higher powers.

My meter only clicks at 1/3 stop so I can't be more precise. Certainly a quick test of 50 or so pops is not very scientific.

I shoot RAW so if it became and issue I'd likely adjust that 1/3 stop in post processing.

I do believe your findings. However for me, I have greater stumbling blocks in my photographic journey than strobe consistency.

[bigjon0107]

Originally Posted by davidhood

I shoot RAW so if it became and issue I'd likely adjust that 1/3 stop in post processing.

RAW would not necessarily save you on this one. Say you are using a 3 light setup, on pops at 5500K at the metered flash, and the other pops at 5700K and 1/3rd stop above the metered light, then the 3rd pops at 5350K and 1/3rd stop below the metered light. That is where you can run into some issues. You would not have one constant problem across the frame and could not correct it by adjusting the exposure and the WB of the image.

With that said, I love my AB's and they work great for what i use them for (mainly strobing gyms, or on location shoots)

[davidhood]

You're correct, in a multi-light setup RAW wouldn't help save that frame. I'd probably have to pop off a few more frames.

Originally Posted by bigjon0107

RAW would not necessarily save you on this one.