Highschool athletic photo question concerning websites

[Dobick]

Gotta question for everone. (posted this in the sports section, but needed this question to be seen so I posted here as well.)

I need to know if anyone is aware of any rules that govern posting photos of high school sports activities on websites.

The only thing that I can find in relation to UIL is that the State championship will not credential anyone who intends to sell photographs.

The specific situation is this: I posted shots to facebook and recieved a message from the coach:

I don't want to sound like a jerk but I would appreciate it if you did not post pics on websites of my teams. I do it through Booster club which makes it legal. If you want to turn those pics over to me/booster club, I can handle them and do it legally

.

I checked the UIL policy on booster club guidelines but found nothing about photography or websites. I want to make certain that I stay on the legal side of things. I immediately pulled the images from facebook. The problem with the request comes from the fact that I also have the images posted for sale on zenfolio. There is another photographer that regularly covers the school and team and has hers for sale and posted on photoreflect.

I had a conversation on the field following practice yesterday and he said I was welcome to shoot pictures this year.

I also spoke with the Superintendent of schools and asked him if there was any exclusive contract for shooting the games this fall, and he not only said that there was not, but that he welcomed competition and thought that it provides for a better product in the end.

So I am looking for any guidance that I can find on what the laws are before I send him a response so I can have my ducks in a row.

[Atfulldraw]

Last time I checked, the super had the final say.....

Just tell the coach you won't do any Monday morning quarterbacking if he doesn't involve himself in your business. ;)

If you want to get into a discussion, ask the coach what it is about you posting the photos is "illegal"

[dbphotos]

He obviously doesn't know the term "legal". There is nothing illegal with what you are doing. Now the school or governing body can limit access to the field for you to shoot images, but if they don't like where you post those images, the most they can do is not allow you on the field in the future.

I'd nicely ask the coach what his concerns are and you may be able to address them. My guess is that its a money maker for the booster club and they want control over the images.

[Dobick]

I think the first thing I am going to do in the morning is go speak to the superintendant, and make certain that he stands by what he says, and then I will probably go speak with the coach directly, and find out what his concerns are. I had typed up a response to him, asking which websites he was referring to, but could not find a way to say it where I did not sound combative. Just got to find a way to diffuse this, and move on with the year

[ldelacruz]

What a JA!

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by ldelacruz

What a JA!

Yeah -- I've never heard anyone start a sentence with the words "I don't want to sound like a jerk..." not immediately follow with something that they know is going to be recieved well, and the truth is, I never seen that disclaimer actually help make things better.

[texkam]

I also spoke with the Superintendent of schools and asked him if there was any exclusive contract for shooting the games this fall, and he not only said that there was not, but that he welcomed competition and thought that it provides for a better product in the end.

...and he knows you and others are posting them in cyberspace? If the Super is OK with it, then the coach needs to go **** himself. I'd politely take him out of the equation by letting him know you've cleared it upstairs and wish him a successful season.

Just tell the coach you won't do any Monday morning quarterbacking if he doesn't involve himself in your business. ;)

Too good!

[MicWayWal]

Kent,

You are doing nothing wrong legally. If they give you access, either through 'on the field' privileges or as a spectator in the stands, you are allowed to print, publish, or sell them and long as the pictures were taken in a public place and the subjects had no expectation of privacy. At a public event or performance you can photograph and use everything you can see but not the stuff you are not supposed to see. For example taking pictures through a window of people preparing for the performance or changing clothes is a no-no. But of them lining up to go on is OK. It is like taking pictures on the street but not into someone's house.

But you are talking about another animal here when it comes to coaches and booster clubs. The booster clubs most likely get money from the existing photographer and in turn the money is given to the booster club and then used on the team. While the coaches usually don't have any legal right to the money they have a very strong sway into how it is spent. Be careful here. You can ruffle feathers and do yourself more harm than good.

I would NEVER EVER put any images on Facebook, Flickr or any other site I do not know precisely ALL of the terms and conditions (you need a lawyer). When you do, you give the people at Facebook, Flickr and these other sites, rights to the images I am sure you do not know about or have model releases for. They actually can wind up on the cover of national magazine, all without your knowledge. You think people are mad now? See this thread. If you are going to put them on a site, put them up on your own domain.

[toverman]

Good advice here. I know of several folks who take photos of high school games of all types and sell them to the local newspaper and on their own sites.

[Coelus]

It's good business to be friendly with the coach's and boosters. During the game the sideline belongs to the coach. The boosters are made up of a lot of the players parents. Either of these can cause you a lot of grief and frustration if they have the mind to.

The boosters are there to make money for the program. It helps to keep the costs down for parents since the schools actually contribute very little to the budgets. A good coach works with his booster clubs and help them out. Try doing the same. Kindly tell the coach that you understand his concerns and that he's looking out for the best interest of his players, but you already have permission from the superintendent to be there. Then offer him a couple good sized matted prints to auction at the next fundraiser or to give to a big money alumni. A successful program for them is a play-off season for you.

[Jim Victory]

Michael and John have covered it well. Having been the president of a booster club a number of times I can tell you the coach is trying to direct money to the booster club.

I think if he understands that you are a freelance photographer with permission from the Sup., and not a parent snapping pics, it would be a different thing. As Michael pointed out if you post the pics anywhere do so on your own website domain. My guess the facebook posting is the problem because it is less than professional if your really interested in being a freelance sports photographer.

I have shot many local highschool sporting events and it is always good business to donate some shots to the various booster clubs. It will get you treated better, provide access to events, and they will help promote your business.

[CallMeAl]

The problem with his statement is that numerous people photograph the games and sells images. The local newspaper being one of th most obvious as most of them have the photos available for sale. I'm sure in this instance however, the booster club has entered into a contract of some sorts with a photographer to sell images as a fund raiser and that your photos are cutting into his business. If that's the case, it sounds like they should partner with you instead of the other guy. When I was shooting HS sports, I had an Athletic Director tell me that there was already a photographer shooting their games. I said that it was just like football...it's competition. I'll either out perform him or I won't. He understood that and that was the end of the problem. Check with the booster club and see how you can benefit each other, because they will be calling asking you to buy an ad or donate to the banquet.

[Cat L]

I have to say something from a different angel. I am a PTA president and we have to make sure before we use any image that the parent did not request it not be made public. Each parent has to sign a form at the beginning of the year. I would always ask the coach if he had this form to show you. There are always safety issues. Those being 1st and foremost of importance when it comes to children. Sometimes in this mixed up world there are people who want to hurt others. Most of them use their kids. So we need to make sure that we are thinking of the kids even though the parents don't. Weird huh. Sad even. Just like you need a model release if you shoot a photo of a child you should have the parents sign a release. It protects you and the child.

That is my 2 cents. take or leave it. But remember the athlete in a high school game is still just a child. Think of them 1st and you will be fine.

Cat

[Coelus]

Originally Posted by Cat L

I have to say something from a different angel. I am a PTA president and we have to make sure before we use any image that the parent did not request it not be made public. Each parent has to sign a form at the beginning of the year. I would always ask the coach if he had this form to show you. There are always safety issues. Those being 1st and foremost of importance when it comes to children. Sometimes in this mixed up world there are people who want to hurt others. Most of them use their kids. So we need to make sure that we are thinking of the kids even though the parents don't. Weird huh. Sad even. Just like you need a model release if you shoot a photo of a child you should have the parents sign a release. It protects you and the child.

That is my 2 cents. take or leave it. But remember the athlete in a high school game is still just a child. Think of them 1st and you will be fine.

Cat

It's a public location with no expectation of privacy. As long as it's editorial use there shouldn't be a need for a model release. Images can be sold as long as it doesn't defame, libel or associate the subjects with products, services, politics, etc.

Of course I could be wrong.

[texkam]

Each parent has to sign a form at the beginning of the year.

I'm a band parent. I've signed them. It seems it would be impossible for for a kid to be in the band or on the football team or any other activity that is held in a public venue if they refuse to sign. Yes they are kids but these activities put them in a public venue. Band parents shoot from the stands. Cross country meets are held in public parks so there is no safety in this regard. I understand that even creeps can be taking images my daughter as she marches in the Plano Christmas Parade.