My run-in with the law!

[tomdrink]

On Saturday, I was visiting Westfest ( a festival in the town of West) with my family. we got there and found some friends, I had a beer, and told my wife I was going to go around and take some pics. I took a few of the kiddie area, with kids playing games, doing the hula hoop, bungee cording, etc. I the went to the rides area, and continued taking pics of the rides. Things like the merry-go-round, tilt-a-whirl, and then finally the ferris wheel. As I was shooting the wheel, pointing up very high, I feel a tap on my shoulder and I hear "Excuse me, sir".
I turn around and it is a McClennan County Sheriff. He asks what I was doing. I said taking pictures. He says of what, and i said "the rides". He said he had "several" people report that a man was taking pictures of children. I said, Yes, the rides do have children on them!. He then asks for my identification, and at that time I notice three other officers behind me, kinda encircling me! I got really nervous! He told me to take my ID out of my wallet and hand it to him, and I did. He walked off, and another officer came to me and started asking me questions...Am I here alone (no, i said my wife and daughter were about 200 yards away). Where was I from. How long have I been here, when did I get here, why was I taking pictures, etc. I told him I was just taking carnival pictures, and the offered to let him see them on the LCD. I panned through several, and he said, okay. Then he told me that they were just taking precautions. While this is going on, the sheriff is (I assume) calling in my drivers license to see if I was on any sexual pervert list! People were walking by, staring at "the scene". I felt very strange.
After about 10 minutes, the sheriff comes back and gives me my license back. He said all was okay. I asked if I was not supposed be taking these kind of pictures, and he said it was fine, and I may continue! I asked if I should have done anything different, and he suggested that I could have checked in at the security booth, and let them k now what I was going to be shooting.
Crazy world we live in. I didn't take any more pictures, as I was, franky, kinda upset!

Just wanted to share this with ya'll, and see if you have any feedback.

Tom

[dlanter]

I've had similar experiences too. I can kind of understand, in this crazy world parents have to really be careful about perverts now. But it is upsetting from our point of view also. I'm sure if your wife was there with you there wouldn't have been a word said about it, but a single guy taking pics of kids causes some alarms to go off with some people.

[MHampton]

At least they didn't give you some line about it be illegal to take pictures and try to make you erase your cards like some of the other stories I've heard.

[ggeen]

Hello Tom. It sounds like everyone involved handled the situation pretty professionally -- both you and the police. Sorry you had the bad experience but people get paranoid these days. I've seen some teens with a t-shirt saying something like "Skateboarding is not a crime". Maybe we need one that says "Photography is not a crime."

I hope the rest of your days was uneventful.

[lokerd]

That's funny. I was JUST reading this link a few moments ago:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columni...y-rights_x.htm

One of our local camera club members was told to delete the pictures off their memory card after taking a picture of a public sign at a BIG chain store with a poorly written sign.

It is getting crazy out there for sure. I get stopped all the time. I am ready with credentials and an explanation of what I am doing. Unfortunately, they were correct about checking in with security. I will have to remember that...be preemptive!

A few weeks ago, I was on a small motor boat (14' aluminum flat bottom) trolling around under a rail bridge and around a dock. I had taken photos MANY times of the main public side of the bridge...and for the first time was on the other side. It was really neat. Then all of a sudden I saw port security officers gathering along the dock and violently motioning for me to move on. I putted over to them and they explained it to me! Later that day, quite coincidentally, I read over a boating policy regarding boat, bridges, etc. and I could have been in big trouble!

[danchez]

I would think that you would be appreciative that they took the initiative to investigate what you were doing. Too many times we here how the cops don't do anything. Or there were lots of warning signs to prevent an incident yet none were followed up on. Even though you were nervous and scared, I think they did their job. Can you imagine if there was a pedophile there and he was going to start taking pictures and he saw all the cops come and investigate you. What if this incident stopped a pedophile??? I commend the officers for taking the time to actually investigate and interrogate you.

[tomdrink]

After the fact, I kept wondering if I was "obligated" to present my identification. If I was doing nothing illegal, what are my rights, as a U.S citizen? What would/could happen if I do not present my ID card? To me, in hindsight, I was "detained", my identification card take from me, removed from my immediate presence, and "questioned" about what I was doing. I'm no lawyer, but do I have to answer any questions, and if not, do they have the right to "take me in"?
Maybe someone on the forum, with a legal background, can answer these questions for the benefit of all, who may possibly face this situation in the future. Not that I didn't, or wouldn't do the same thing next time. Just, what is actually required, in the eyes of the law?
Tom

[Tom]

After the fact, I kept wondering if I was "obligated" to present my identification. If I was doing nothing illegal, what are my rights, as a U.S citizen?

Then when they ask for it, ask them "Am I legally required to give you my identification?"

[jbelcid]

Yes, you can be detained for investigative purposes which is what happened. Some parents complained that you were photographing their children. Once it's reported like that the police officer has a duty to investigate the incident. While you might feel violated as a photographer, imagine being a nonphotographer and seeing some stranger takes what appears to be pictures of your child. I can understand how this would alarm some people. The officer has every right to investigate the incident and ask for your identification. Failure to do so is Fail to ID. Thing about Texas is you can go to jail for everything but speeding and open container (god bless Texas). So the best thing to do is just understand that the officer is there doing his job. No matter how trivial he thinks the call is understand that he has to treat every call as a serious matter. From your story none of the officers were rude or agressive to you. They assessed the situation, asked you some questions and were able to look at your photographs that you offered to show them. After they saw that there was no problem you were free to go.

PS. Man two years of trolling the forum and this is my first post. Lol

[dbphotos]

Originally Posted by tomdrink

After the fact, I kept wondering if I was "obligated" to present my identification. If I was doing nothing illegal, what are my rights, as a U.S citizen? Tom

Yes, you are required to show ID if they are acting reasonably. Check out Hiibel v. Nevada. The SCOTUS decision says this is not a violation of your Fourth Amendment rights.

Linky linky

[tomdrink]

Originally Posted by dbphotos

Yes, you are required to show ID if they are acting reasonably. Check out Hiibel v. Nevada. The SCOTUS decision says this is not a violation of your Fourth Amendment rights.

Linky linky

I actualy read that link today! It seems, to me, anyway, that the police would have to have reasonable suspicion that a criminal activity was being committed. I don't see how an individual taking pictures, in a public place, would be suspicious as a criminal activity.

from that link:

Nevada has a “stop-and-identify” law that allows a peace officer to detain any
person he encounters “under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the
person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime”; the person
may be detained only to “ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances
surrounding his presence abroad.”

Tom

[tomdrink]

Here is an example of the "criminal activity" I was performing!
Not that it's a good pic, just an example of the type of shots I was taking.
Tom

[lokerd]

Originally Posted by tomdrink

“under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the
person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime”

I think the operative word here is "reasonably". Come on now...this is Texas we are talking about. Maybe I have watched WAY too much TV...but there is NO way I am going to buck up to the police. AS long as the don't tell me to give them my camera, I'll delete images knowing I can recover them.

When I see the police come over to ask questions...I start spilling my dang guts!!! I want them to know everything I am thinking QUICK!! I had a police officer slow down with their window down...before they had chance to say hello I stated what I was doing on the side of the road with a tripod, etc.

Personally, I have been shooting in some crazy places...and as long as I am not trespassing...I am glad when they come around...makes me feel safer that I have $10k worth of gear slung around my neck. Go up to them and make friends if you can. I have several police friends here in my area that are into photography. But this doesn't help outside of Beaumont...or really even in Beaumont since I only have a few contacts compared to the much larger new and unknown officers.

[jeffkohn]

What's really sad, is that so many paranoid, ignorant parents felt that your actions were threatening or potentially harmful. This fear of photography in public is completely irrational.

[Westx]

Jeff are you a parent if so thats wonderful. Now have you or anyone you know ever been molested as a child? Ever had a female friend killed by a stalker? Ever had perverts call your house and harrass your 14 year old niece and 9 year old daughter?

If you can't answer yes to any of these question then shut the bleep up until you have walked in the shoes of someone that has. I personally can answer yes to all of them and I am a parinod parent when it comes to my kids and their friends.

To call people ignorant parents because they had a concern about some stranger randomly taking pictures of kids is beyond stupid on your part.