Pixtus - Photography Forum, Photographers, Photo Tips

CaptainTom · **carrying in Texas -** 11-12-2009, 08:17 AM

I'm looking at the reports of the tragedy at Fort Hood and can't help but think that this sort of thing could happen in a civilian setting ( remember Luby's).
I also can't help but think that if it happened in a civilian setting there would likely have been at least a couple of CHL's present, and the shooter would have been either pinned down or taken out before he could have done as much mayhem.
I have limited my "carrying" to when I'm hauling my expensive camera gear in a questionable neighborhood, etc. But, I think I'm converting to 'full time'. I don't care to be categorized in the Obit's as an 'innocent bystander'.

I'm not sure how I feel about "open carry", but I'd like to hear some opinions also.

Night Owl · 11-12-2009, 08:25 AM

There was a licensed carrier at Luby's when that tragedy occurred, but he was too chickensh!t to use it. He told investigators he was worried he'd miss the suspect, hit an innocent and get sued. A CHL is only as useful as it's carrier's willingness to act.

utdbear · 08:42 AM

I'm personally not a big fan of open carry. I think it would deter some crimes, but one of the biggest tactical advantages you could have in a situation requiring your handgun is the element of surprise. I haven't researched the tragedy much, but you'd think that in a military base, someone around there in that building would have had a 92FS on their hip and could have stopped it much earlier.

kamari · 11-12-2009, 08:39 AM

I don't think it would help any. It may solve an answer or two but it would more than likely create more issues than answers that it would solve.

The scenario I see going horribly wrong is you, the potential hero, draw your weapon to take down this guy on a rampage and as you're lining up your shot an officer (or another citizen) runs in the room and sees YOU. That's not gonna be fun.

ronocnikral · 11-12-2009, 08:40 AM

when i lived in new orleans, i carried 100% of the time i could. i rode my bike to work, but since it was against my employer's policy to have a gun at work, i didn't want to risk getting fired either.

i'm for it. i would probably never take a person's life over my camera equipment. but, the unfortunate thing today is people beat you up/kill you first, then take everything.

that's about all i have to say about open carry that stays within the rules of the forum...

SCone · 11-12-2009, 08:41 AM

There is no "open carry" allowed in Texas except on your own property (or with permission of the property owner).

Texas did extend the "castle law" to cover carry within your own vehicle. This allows for the carry of a loaded firearm in you car, but you cannot carry it with you. It's great for protection while driving, but has little effect once you leave your auto. There are some "conditions" within the law, but for the most part, it's open for anyone to use.

Concealed carry is permitted only by license... easy to do, take the class, shoot some rounds, and wait until you have the plastic in-hand. Once you have the plastic, you can freely carry "concealed" just about anywhere unless posted. There are exclusions... bars, schools, court house, etc. But most places I go have no problem with legal carry.

You'll learn everything you need to know if you take the class.

I carry most everyday. Choose your weapon carefully. I see too many that go for a large caliber auto and with it they get to carry a large, heavy weapon all the time and deal with concealing it. Some folks feel they only "need" to carry in certain neighborhoods or when they are doing particular activities. But think about it, how do you know when your "good day" is someone else's "bad day"? In every shooting I've read about, no one had any reason to suspect anything was wrong until it was too late. In the Luby's shooting, one person had their pistol IN THE CAR, but could not get to it.

My choice was a Ruger LCP in a pocket holster. Half a dozen 380 rounds will put the hurt on when needed and is a breeze to carry whether it be in slacks or shorts.

I would suggest some type of strong-box for the car if you have to leave your weapon. Won't stop a car theft, but it will deter the opportunist.

CaptainTom · 11-12-2009, 08:51 AM

I'm not an advocate of using your weapon to protect "property". I do think that all too often the perps are causing physical harm to the property owners as well.
That's what I'll be protecting. My and others personal well being.

This thread should not get political. This discussion is no different than those regarding photographers rights and the associated laws.

ElanR · 09:08 AM

On April 12, 1993, Army Regulation 190-04 went into effect, forbidding military personnel from carrying their personal firearms unless a "credible and specific threat" existed. Most military bases were deemed devoid of any such threat. Below are the first couple of sections from this order. Here's a link to a PDF document containing the full order:

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/r190_14.pdf

Why--under then president Bill Clinton--this order was passed is not a difficult question to answer. The tough one for me is how it survived the eight year rein of the Bush administration. I'm not interjecting politics into this as much as making the point that the military had every opportunity to get this overturned, and they chose not to.

Quote:

History. This UPDATE printing publishes a revision of this publication. Because the publication has been extensively revised, the changed portions have not been highlighted.

Summary. This revision provides guidance on the carrying of firearms and the use of force by personnel engaged in law enforcement and security duties. It implements Department of Defense policy to limit and control the carrying of firearms by Department of the Army military and civilian personnel. It establishes criteria for compliance with its provisions by contract security personnel. This revision requires that the use of deadly force with firearms be applied equally to personnel using a weapon or equipment which, when properly employed, would exert deadly force. Authorizing officials are given additional authorization document options and qualification requirements are also clarified. It fully implements applicable portions of DOD Directive 5210.56 (app B).

Applicability. This regulation applies to the Active Army, the U.S. Army Reserve, the Department of the Army civilian police and security guard activities, contracted or contractor security force operations and activities, and the Army National Guard only when called or ordered to active duty in a Federal status under the provisions of title 10, United States Code.

Daniel Bates · 11-12-2009, 09:07 AM

To back this up, the only time I ever had a weapon in my hands was when I was at or en route to or from a live-fire range. Weapons are very tightly controlled on post, and remain locked in an arms room nearly all the time.

Right now, I have at least a 9mm on my belt nearly all the time - but that's a different situation.

utdbear · 11-12-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

I'm not an advocate of using your weapon to protect "property". I do think that all too often the perps are causing physical harm to the property owners as well.
That's what I'll be protecting. My and others personal well being.

This thread should not get political. This discussion is no different than those regarding photographers rights and the associated laws.

Believe it or not, I'm not either. Take my camera equipment, I have the PPA insurance so $50 and I'm back in business.

What would your response be to a guy that walks up to you and says 'I have a knife, give me your camera bag?'

zebulus · 11-12-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utdbear

What would your response be to a guy that walks up to you and says 'I have a knife, give me your camera bag?'

You call that a Knife? Thats not a knife. THIS...is a knife!

Bovineguy · 11-12-2009, 09:31 AM

We have open carry over here on the west side of Texas (New Mexico), and we do occasionally. People always talk about "you loose your tactical advantage" when you open carry. Let me pose a question. How often to violent criminals openly commit crimes while there is an armed law enforcement officer present? Not many, most criminals are opportunistic, and if they see what might be a threat to their safety, they don't commit the crime. That said, the best part about living somewhere where you can open carry, is if I am carrying concealed (which I do ALL the time) and my shirt or jacket swings open and my gun is seen, I have not committed a crime like I would have in Texas. If I walk in to a restaurant and take my jacket off, I don't care that my gun is visible. Then again we can't carry anywhere that serves alcohol, and you guys can as long...well you guys know your laws.

I carry all the time, and have for most of my adult life.

CaptainTom · 11-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utdbear

Believe it or not, I'm not either. Take my camera equipment, I have the PPA insurance so $50 and I'm back in business.

What would your response be to a guy that walks up to you and says 'I have a knife, give me your camera bag?'

Is he waving the knife in my face ?
How close is he to me ?

If he says he has a knife, he is a physical threat.

If I can retreat safely, I will.
If he has the knife to my throat, I give him what he wants.
If he is far enough away that I can draw, I will.
If he moves toward me with a knife I shoot him/her(pc).

Every situation is different. Good solid training is all you can do to be prepared for something that you hope never happens.