Hypothetical Question: Selecting clients

[venchka]

As commercial photographers, are you free to pick and choose your clients?

[Digigeek]

There are no hypothetical questions.

But, you are always free to refuse to do work for anyone. It doesn't matter what your profession is.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by venchka

As commercial photographers, are you free to pick and choose your clients?

I would say *yes* but you'd need to be a lot more careful with the *no* than if you were a portrait or wedding photographer where the volume of customers is a lot higher.

Can you give a really good reason to say no to a commercial client? I have only turned down one client but that was just because the money really wasn't there and it was a lot of work.

- Wil

[venchka]

OK, lets be specific. I used commercial meaning doing it for pay.

Suppose you are a Wedding/Portrait photographer. Are you free to select your clients based on your personal preferences?

[Bruce M. Morris]

Still very vague Wayne. We talking discriminatory selection or financial selection or what?

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by venchka

OK, lets be specific. I used commercial meaning doing it for pay.

Suppose you are a Wedding/Portrait photographer. Are you free to select your clients based on your personal preferences?

Oh, *hell yes*. I'm not doing as many weddings as I used to but when I did, I turned down people all the time. I *always* met with brides (sometimes with either their mom or fiance') for coffee and talked to them for 30 minutes to an hour. If I could tell they were going to be a PITA or a B****, I would just tell them I don't have the date available and then refer them to someone else.

It's much better to turn the client down than to have a bad client... who can do a world of damage to your business.

- Wil

[venchka]

OK, the answer is basically "NO, you can't refuse service just like Burger King or Holiday Inn."

"The case arose after Vanessa Willock of Albuquerque contacted Huguenin's business, Elane Photography, about photographing her commitment ceremony. Elaine Huguenin told Willock by e-mail "we do not photograph same-sex weddings," but gave no explanation.

The next day, Willock's partner, Misty Pascottini, asked Elane Photography via e-mail if the studio would photograph her wedding in Ruidoso, New Mexico. Pascottini didn't identify herself as Willock's partner. Huguenin responded that she would be willing to travel to photograph Pascottini's wedding, and sent her pricing information.

Willock filed a discrimination claim in December 2006 with the New Mexico Human Rights Commission. She sought attorney's fees, but no other damages. The NMHRC finally heard Willock's claim in January 2008, and handed down its decision against Elane Photography in April, 2008.

Under the state's Human Rights Act, it is discriminatory (and illegal) for "any person in any public accommodation to make a distinction in offering or refusing to offer its services" on the bases of race, religion, color, sex, sexual orientation and several other factors."

I don't know what "several other factors" are. That is very vague.

[Digigeek]

If you are alluding to discriminatory decisions, then the answer is still yes. While an employer may not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, national origin, religion, handicap, etc. in hiring practices, those standards do not apply to an employee's decision to work for someone else. An applicant to my firm would be free to decide for him or herself not to accept an offer of employment merely because they do not want to work for a "middle aged balding white guy." The same is true with respect to "independent contractors." There is no legal requirement that anyone work for someone they do not want to work for.

There may be moral or business reasons for taking or refusing to take work, but I'm not aware of any legal prohibition against refusing to work for someone you don't want to work for. One also has to question the business and ethical wisdom of turning away otherwise credible customers or clients for discriminatory reasons.

Putting discrimination aside, if you don't want to work for someone because you don't like them, or they will be a PITA, or they won't pay as agreed, then there will generally be no legal consequence from a refusal to do so. I think all businesses, especially small businesses, make those assessments every day.

Wayne, I'm not aware of any similar ruling in Texas. But, that doesn't mean it won't come some day.

[J Eddington]

You can to some extent. You have to be careful how and what you say.

You can say that you do not believe that you are the right person for them. You are happy to refer them to someone else (in other words: some other sucker with will deal with the gozilla bride).
First deposit will book an event for me. I tell everyone that. Until I have payment in hand, the event is not booked.

Opps that bride just called you back, sorry I am booked for that date, even if it is for lunch with your wife.

What ever you do, do not do this...Photographer Loses Bid to Refuse Same-Sex Wedding Jobs

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by J Eddington

First deposit will book an event for me. I tell everyone that. Until I have payment in hand, the event is not booked.

I take it one step further... initial payment AND a signed contract are required. Until BOTH are in my hand, nothing is booked. I won't take (meaning: deposit into the bank) a payment without a signed contract either.

- Wil

[venchka]

Thanks Janice. That was the link I was looking for and quoted from above.

"You are ugly and your mother dresses you funny" probably shouldn't be used either.

[Digigeek]

I'm intrigued by the New Mexico case since the court there considered the photography business a "public accomodation", so I ran a quick Westlaw search for Texas cases. I still didn't find anything similar (but didn't exhaustively research the issue).

Typically, a "public accomodation" is a place that has its doors open to the public and where the public can walk in and buy something - restaurant, hotel, retail business, barbershop, etc. It's been the law that you cannot refuse to do business with people in those types of places for discriminatory reasons since the Civil Rights Act in the 60s. I've not seen it applied to a professional services situation before.

Putting aside the legal, ethical and moral issues, the photographer's mistake was to give a discriminatory reason for turning down the work and agreeing to do something before getting to know the client.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by Digigeek

...the photographer's mistake was to give a discriminatory reason for turning down the work and agreeing to do something before getting to know the client.

Absolutely!

- Wil

[tc95]

It all boils down to being PC...when you say NO...

[brad]

Originally Posted by Digigeek

... the photographer's mistake was to give a discriminatory reason for turning down the work and agreeing to do something before getting to know the client.

Exactly.

Never, ever use a reason that could come back to bite you in a PR way. Janice used the language of "I'm not the right photographer for you." That's probably the best way to put it. Or if they insist.. go a step further and explain that you've never shot something like that before and you don't think you'd do a very good job. "I just don't know how to shoot that sort of thing" might be good.

Never lie and say "I'm booked," either. Like happened before, its easy to prove that you are lying.. the other partner calls and tries to book.. you say yes you have it available.. and whap.

Especially when there are discrimination laws on the books.. never give them an illegal reason.

When all else fails and you aren't comfortable... just say "No" and don't give a reason. No one says you have to fill the silence that follows, "No, I'm afraid I cannot shoot your ceremony." Site personal reasons and leave it at that.