Shooting For Free

[brad]

Ok, Abel has asked that this discussion be taken to another thread in two other threads now... so lets start it here and leave those other threads alone.

Subject: Shooting for Free

Definition: Typically doing an assignment for nothing more than the experience and perhaps images for the photographer's portfolio. Sometimes also done for charitable reasons.



My take:

I think it has an important place in photography. For those starting out, it has been around for a very long time under names from Intern to Tag-along.

I will shoot for free myself for tests or concepts that I want to try.

I have used free second shooters for some situations myself with liberal usage rights to the other photographer allowing them to build their portfolio with those images.

I shoot for two different charitable situations.. promotional images for the haunted house and free sessions for families of military personnel stationed overseas.

My only problem with people looking for free shooters is when they obfuscate the fact that its not paid behind words like "opportunity" or "build your portfolio." I think that if you are going to post that you are looking for a photographer to fill a position, you should be clear that it is paid or not paid from the beginning. It saves everyone time.

If you come across a post looking for someone to work for free.. and its not something you are interested in.. forum rules say you should move along and not reply. I've been guilty of not doing that... and I think we all need to get better at it.

Feel free (no pun intended) to chime in with your thoughts... even if its that you think one should never work for free. This is the appropriate thread for this discussion... but please, lets keep it civil and make it a real discussion, not a thread that needs closing.

[texkam]

From No-spec.com. 2nd link is good stuff.

NO!SPEC Working Pro Bono
NO!SPEC Pro Bono Work

[mmuhlenkamp]

I think a lot of "shooting for free" requests rub people the wrong way because of the way they are asked. Like you stated, Brad, "learning opportunity" or "build your portfolio". I'm happy to do something for free depending on who's asking and how they ask it. I am the same with any graphic design services I might provide.

If I'm doing it for free, I'm pretty much going to do it how I want to do it. I want to make the other person happy, but not at the detriment of being proud of my own work. Doing stuff for free allows one to explore with little consequence so it gets the creative juices going without so much concern for money and budget (which is freeing in itself).

There's nothing wrong in asking for free services, but beggars can't be choosers and be grateful in the end.

Oh also, even for free services, a lot of times a contract is still good to have, especially if it's something fairly formal (weddings?!) just to cover your own ass and everyone is on the same page.

[Jim Boyd]

I think there are instances were shooting for free is wrong. One is if an entity would normally pay for a photographer, and because they know you would shoot for free, they use you. This seems to be taking bread off the table of a fellow photographer.

There other is when an entity is getting paid for a project and they use free photography services to enhance their bottom line.

This is just my opinion.

[Coogie]

Yeah the whole "opportunity" thing kind of rubs me the wrong way too. I won't name names because they might be here too but every year I see a person advertising a "shooting opportunity" to stand in a cultural event and take snap shots of people which the group will sell. How much better will your photography get by standing outside and taking snapshots of people in auto mode?

Another thing I saw last year was a fashion show (not sure if it was the same group) which wanted to give the great opportunity to shoot them for free when they were charging $500 a table! I'm pretty sure the caterers didn't cook for free, the DJ didn't work for free, and the hotel didn't give them the banquet hall for free and they didn't try to convince those people that this was an "opportunity" for them so why is it that the photographer is expected to take it? I always say that it wouldn't kill them to throw a $100 to the photographer to at least pay for his gas and thank him/her.

If people are honest about their intentions then free isn't a bad thing. I like doing TFP work that gives me an actual opportunity to learn new things, meet new people, and build my portfolio and everybody in the group is volunteering their time. If I didn't do that stuff for free, I'd probably be paying to go to workshops. I'd rather shoot for free than to pay to shoot.

I also do free work for a dog rescue group and I saw that they were a legitimate non-profit group which take dogs out of horrendous situations and needed a calendar for fundraiser and after seeing how much time, money, and effort they put into their work, I felt kind of guilty that I couldn't do more than just take pictures.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's peeved by the whole "great opportunity to work for free!" posts...

[janikphoto]

I agree that legitimate charities and non-profits can be considered for pro bono work. However, I find it hard to understand how a haunted house is worthy of that designation?!? Is it run by your community church or are the profits given to a charity?

Here's the deal, free work that is guaranteed to to get you paid work can be considered an advertising expense. I shoot networking events for a national group that is filled with potential clients. I shoot these events for free (the pics can be used in their eblasts/facebook/website with photo credit), and I network while I'm there. I've received plenty of referrals and paid gigs from this group, so I am fine with that.

I also donate my services to a couple charities that I really believe in. And, besides helping a charity, I also network/market myself like mad at those shoots. They pay off in the long run.

This is a very slippery slope, though. If you don't play it right and really choose the few free gigs that you do, people will start to think of you as the "free guy". And you need to ask to be listed as a sponsor, since you are donating X dollars of services. You need to make it VERY clear that your normal fee is $XXXX.

[dminton]

[Cajungaltx]

I just shot a class full of 7th graders for a auction project at my daughters school... while I was there... I took a photo of one of the teachers...cause she seriously needed one...

I did it for free. Now, obviously, my name is gonna be plasters on the 'thank you' notes... and the parents can order their kids photo from me... so there is a possibility I may get some work from it... but... the bottom line is that I freaking LOVE taking pictures... and while I am 9 kinds of excited that people are PAYING me to do it for them... the reality is that I would be doing it for ZERO dollars... just cause I enjoy it.

I shoot with NILMDTS and Operation Love: Reunited... both charity organizations...

That said... I'm not going to shoot for someone making a profit at something, or be part of something where the 'other' talents utilized are being 'paid' for their services... i.e. a banquet, etc...if your good enough to be requested in a scenario like that... your good enough to get paid... so the 'why/what' is important to me... VERY important...

But I'd do it for free if it were the only way I could do it...

[texkam]

CL gigs have been turned into a laughing stock. I thought this person had a good idea. .....

Dear Craigslist,

I would like to take this time to bring a problem to your attention that you may not be aware of. It is a problem that is seriously affecting myself, my peers, and our clients… and it needs immediate attention!!!

The problem, in a nutshell, is freeloading.

You see, here on the creative gig boards (and, I’m sure, on many other gig boards, as well.) you will find a plethora of talented, hard-working, highly skilled professionals from many different fields. Designers, Illustrators, Photographers and more. These are not people who are hard-up, or starving. Some of us just seek the occasional extra bit of income to supplement our salaries. Some of us use CL as a primary source of that income. Either way, using CL does not, by any measure, define us as some sort of discount day-labor or bargain-basement boobs who will do anything for a dollar.

We are PROFESSIONALS, first and foremost, and expect to be treated as such.

This is generally not a problem, when dealing with serious, professional clients; True businesspeople who understand the value of hiring someone with specialized skills. They understand that their time is valuable, and so, then, should ours be.

Unfortunately, these clients are being driven out of Craigslist by an avalanche of “freeloaders”.

Every day, the CL gig boards across the nation are being inundated with posts seeking skilled, professional services for “free” or “cheap”. Some offer the “opportunity” to “build your portfolio”. Others offer payment “Once my project is sold” to a publisher, etc. Some are even bold enough to equate compensation with the chance for your work “to be seen” on their website/business card/letterhead/etc.

In short, they are looking for free work.

Now, I am not begrudging anyone’s right to ask for free work. But I am making you aware that, because of the hordes of these posts appearing on CL daily, it is becoming increasingly difficult and frustrating for myself and my peers to find serious gigs.

It is also forcing us to scrutinize what serious gigs we do find, to the point where, I am sure, many serious professionals are no longer willing to post on the CL gig board, for fear of being lumped in with these freeloaders. In short, it is hurting everyone but the freeloaders.

Now, I am not here just to bitch and moan. This is a problem we CAN solve, and I think I have an idea of how to do so… an idea, I pray, you will see merit in.

I ask you to create a separate, “FREE” gig board for these people. This way, they can post to their heart’s content, and be sure to reach their target audience, as only those looking to work for nothing will read this board.

Additionally, to further discourage them posting on the real gig boards, change the “pay” entry field to accept only numeric entries. (And restrict the entries from starting with a zero.) You could possibly also enter a “negotiable” choice, as well for those who do not want to offer a solid dollar amount.) Then, change the gig rules to plainly state that this board is for PAYING gigs ONLY.

This way, when we flag the non-paying ones, there will be no question whether or not we are in the right in doing so.

This is a fairly straightforward and simple solution to a plaguing problem. I urge you to take this action immediately. Myself, and my peers, would be eternally grateful!

[Optical Sensations]

I had fallen victim to this in my earlier days, eventually you are able to tell people that you do not need to "build your portfolio". And, guess what, they move along very quickly, because they know they will find someone that will do it for them. I see photography heading in a direction of a field of work that is no longer a skilled profession, merely one of auto shooters. There doesn't seem to be a way to educate the new comers into the field, because they come and go with such frequency. As one of my mentors in photography, a man I had apprenticed for over 15 years ago, when I was a photo major, put it, "Good enough is the new term for quality." And, it is true. That is why someone can come charge $500 for a wedding, and shoot it with a $400 camera/lens kit, and the pop up flash. It isn't that the image sensor in that camera is below the level to capture good images, it is the lack of knowledge that they possess. Eventually, MAYBE, the public will grow tired of mere snapshots for important events, and budget for experience. Or, photography, by and large, will just become a second income, or hobby for all but a select 3 or 4 in any given major city. I don't know. I have seen too many studios close in the Houston area close, though. These were once very prominent studios. IDK, my .02. Anyone see a different angle? A ray of hope, or an even dimmer future?

[brad]

Good discussion so far.. I know there are a lot of places where we are going to have to agree to disagree.. but that's the beauty of having a civil discussion.

Originally Posted by janikphoto

I agree that legitimate charities and non-profits can be considered for pro bono work. However, I find it hard to understand how a haunted house is worthy of that designation?!? Is it run by your community church or are the profits given to a charity?

[ OT ]

Sorry, I wasn't specific because I always assume my work with our haunted house is common knowledge. It is a real non-profit, 501c certified charity. 100% of the money we take in after expenses (rent, for instance) is donated to various charities. In the past, these charities have included Special Olympics and local fire and police departments. Our list of charities for the 2010 season has not yet been finalized, so I'm not at liberty to say what they will be.

The photographic work I do for that is in a promotional capacity. I make publicity images which we use on the website, print advertising, and more. Last season, my images were used in a national magazine aimed at the haunted house industry (didn't get the cover, dammit.. beat out by a better photo, curse them). I also offer them services for printing their promotional work through my sources at my cost.

Beyond all that, I also dedicate my time in a non-photographic capacity... that has included construction in the off season, planning, help with financial books, and organization of actors during our operating season.

In that last capacity, my wife and I routinely joke that we have 300 of the scariest children you've ever met -- and that's before they put on makeup and costumes. The haunted house industry often attracts troubled kids and to many of them, we are as much or more their parents than their real parents.. they all call us Mom and Dad. As she said once when someone asked her, "What if that was the only hug they got today? What if I'm the only person this week that told them they were doing a great job? That's why I do this."

So in a way, we also help troubled kids find a positive outlet for their issues - by scaring the bejeebers out of other people. LOL

[ /OT ]

Now back to our regularly scheduled subject about working for free...

[CaptainTom]

As a reformed professional musician I'll just say that there is a credo that if the gig offers you a cut of the door receipts, or all the beer you can drink,,,,,,take the beer because you'll end up making more.

How does this apply to photographer ? Well I'll tell you,,, I have no idea.

[Jim Boyd]

After some of my shoots, I need all the beer I can drink.

[texkam]

Slightly off topic but

"Good enough is the new term for quality." ..... Eventually, MAYBE, the public will grow tired of mere snapshots for important events, and budget for experience

Yeah, welcome to the club. I'm a graphic designer. Do I think people should budget for experience in my field? Of course, but many of us settle for good enough. Do landscape architects think people should budget for experience in their field? Of course, but many of us settle for good enough. How 'bout the furniture business? Do these folks think people should budget for quality (walnut, ash, cherry). Of course, but many of us settle for good enough. Obviously we all place importance on what we're passionate about. Fine photography, like everything else is just changing with the times and carries less importance than it used to.

[CaptainTom]

In the "old" days only the really serious hobbyist and the professional photographer likely had Hasselblad cameras. Only professionals shot with RB67 because it was just too cumbersome for the casual amateur.
These cameras offered up the biggest negatives and therefore the most technically perfect print.
If you wanted to get great prints ( and that's what people did with their cameras then ) you hired a professional who had the big negative camera and likely had some big expensive studio lighting equipment.
Now, the guy next door spent a few bucks and has his DSLR with a kit lens and takes pretty nice pictures of his kids, dogs, wife, car.
So why pay some professional to shoot when the guy next door is pretty good ?

You don't need to know about light, exposure, DOF, composition. Your camera will seek out the heads and expose and focus specifically on them. How can it go wrong ? I expect there will be a camera out soon that doesn't have any controls that we are used to. It will have a lens that goes from wide angle to extreme telephoto and a built in flash with red eye reduction and head seeking focusing. In fact, you won't even have to look through the viewfinder to see the scene in front of you. There'll be a tiny little TV on the back that will show you what the lens sees, and even play back your pictures without having to send any film to the lab.
Science Fiction you say ?? Hah, I've seen one of these miracle cameras with my own two eyes. Watch out SLR users, you'll soon be overrun by these "Shoot and Point" cameras !!!!!