My first TFCD

[Rags]

I will be doing my first TFCD shoot with a couple models in a few weeks. Since many of you are familiar with and have had experience with it, what advise would you give me? For example, are 10-15 images reasonable? What should the image resolution be? Where can I get a good solid lawyer reviewed model release?

[texxter]

Kanyl, different photographers use different approaches. I can share mine. I use the Getty model release and also a written license for the model spelling out what the can and cannot do with the photos. You can download those from my website - I have a FAQ for TFCD that you may find helpful - you'll find the release and license forms there. I give the model a few full resolution images (between 3 and 6 usually, and I deliver them via my website) and I allow them to choose them.

The important principle is a TFCD arrangement is that both parties feel they are getting something valuable. For me the model release allows me to make commercial use of the images, and for the model they get a highly quality set of images that they can use for their promotional purposes, or they can print and frame if they wish to do so. On occasion the images I want are not what the model needs - then I shoot my stuff first and then we do the image(s) the model wants. It's a win-win.

Good luck and please share your results!

[Rags]

Paco, you are a life saver. I really appreciate your advise. It is by far one of the most helpful TFCD advise i've got.

[Robin Binder]

Please remember, you want to make sure you have a plan or idea fir the shoot. I think planning it all can give all involved an acheivement afterwards. Second advice; don't shoot alone. If they are under 18, only an adult can sign a release; so keep that in mind. Print out three to five ideas to refer to. I print five pages of ideas and before you shoot, discuss what you want to try and circle them. I could go on.

[movingex]

Originally Posted by Rags

I will be doing my first TFCD shoot with a couple models in a few weeks. Since many of you are familiar with and have had experience with it, what advise would you give me? For example, are 10-15 images reasonable? What should the image resolution be? Where can I get a good solid lawyer reviewed model release?

If she is an experienced model be prepared to direct her in everything that you want to do. Most of the models I've shot with from MM have no idea of what they are doing. I usually have a bunch of printed samples of posing ideas, and most of the models are surprised that they have a hard time with the poses. They need a lot of encouragement and patience. I tell the models that they will get 5 retouched high resolution images and the web sized of the same five.

[doctahjones]

Originally Posted by RmgB

Please remember, you want to make sure you have a plan or idea fir the shoot. I think planning it all can give all involved an acheivement afterwards. Second advice; don't shoot alone. If they are under 18, only an adult can sign a release; so keep that in mind. Print out three to five ideas to refer to. I print five pages of ideas and before you shoot, discuss what you want to try and circle them. I could go on.

+1

I'm on model mayhem and have quite a few lists of stuff i want to do, so i always have my laptop on hand and am going through them when i come to a photographers block on posing and such.

it's also good to go into the shoot having at least one image or look that you want for your port, and vice versa for the model.

i'm similar to paco (i even copied his tf* usage doc). i don't give out the full size originals, only edits. after the shoot i do put up small, low quality proofs of the session so they can pick the ones they want me to edit. i generally pick out a few that i like, and a few that they like, and it usually turns out to be 3-10 (depending on legnth of shoot, etc), although the usage doc says 3-6.

TF work is very negotiable so don't be afraid to spell out what you will and won't do.

also, take however long you think the shoot will take, and multiply it by 2. so, a 30min shoot will really take an hour, etc. this always seems to happen to me anyway. i always think it will be quick, and it turns into several hours. i just have alot of fun with it and time gets away from me (and usually the girls too)

[doctahjones]

oh yeah, and do -not- forget the model release. -always- get one, no matter what. it's a good habit to get into, and it will save you from any problems down the line...

[ukneeq]

I have a question about the model release. I notice that it has a place for a witness. Is that always necessary? What if it is just you and the model at the shoot?

[srwatters]

The witness is typically involved if you intent to sell the images. Even more so if you think their (the images) value is high. The witness must be a third party without an interest in the outcome. Don't use your spouse or other person who might benefit from the proceeds of a sale.

[Redneck]

Actually, I don't use a model release at all. I don't think it will prevent any trouble and I'm certainly not out for using one to make trouble. A model release usually doesn't do anything good for the model anyway. I talk to the model before the shoot to see if we both agree on the conditions. If we do, her word is worth more to me than any piece of paper.

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by Redneck

Actually, I don't use a model release at all. I don't think it will prevent any trouble and I'm certainly not out for using one to make trouble. A model release usually doesn't do anything good for the model anyway. I talk to the model before the shoot to see if we both agree on the conditions. If we do, her word is worth more to me than any piece of paper.

Unfortunately, most verbal agreements aren't worth the air into which they're spoken nowadays. Veteran pros (photographers who have been shooting 20 or 30 years or more) highly advise always getting a signed model release. A well-worded one will indeed help protect you *should* something come up in the future, and you risk ending up in a web of legalities. Why not take the common sense approach to protect yourself?

[ukneeq]

Originally Posted by srwatters

The witness is typically involved if you intent to sell the images. Even more so if you think their (the images) value is high. The witness must be a third party without an interest in the outcome. Don't use your spouse or other person who might benefit from the proceeds of a sale.

What if a witness isn't avail? Is it that big of a deal? Should I make sure to try and get someone there to be a witness? Or if someone isn't avail just have it signed without a witness? I'm not really at a point where I'll be selling anything, but want to know how best to approach things when I do.

[srwatters]

If you don't think there is a potential for a large enough payout that someone would sue you, then a witness is not important. Essentially what is happening is someone is signing away their rights and the witness is there to prove that it wasn't done under duress. That's the legal issue when it comes to money. I will however encourage you to have a third person there for your own legal protection when shooting someone for the first time. You don't want to get into a he said, she said type of situation. There are just as many shady models out there as there are photographers. When I shoot someone for the first time, I like to meet them in person before the shoot or have a third person there as a witness in case I run into one of those less than desirable situations.

Of course YMMV.

[ukneeq]

Originally Posted by srwatters

If you don't think there is a potential for a large enough payout that someone would sue you, then a witness is not important. Essentially what is happening is someone is signing away their rights and the witness is there to prove that it wasn't done under duress. That's the legal issue when it comes to money. I will however encourage you to have a third person there for your own legal protection when shooting someone for the first time. You don't want to get into a he said, she said type of situation. There are just as many shady models out there as there are photographers. When I shoot someone for the first time, I like to meet them in person before the shoot or have a third person there as a witness in case I run into one of those less than desirable situations.

Of course YMMV.

Thanks! Definitely wise advice.

[Redneck]

There are more than one reason for me.
1. I don't like people who want everything in writing.
2. I don't trust people who want to push me to sign a contract.
3. I don't want to be somebody who pushes someone to sign a contract.
4. I'm living in a two-horse-town community where it simply is not common to sign anything when you want to cooperate.
5. I don't believe a model release will avoid or resolve any conflicts.

I totally understand that living in a city is a whole different story. And I don't doubt that more experienced photographers have had issues on this matter. This is just me talking and I am not advising the thread starter not to use a model release. Just saying I don't.