Female Cruiser captain relieved for being "mean"

[Hanky]

no offence to sub 25 year olds but most kids we have don't want to actually work
seems it's more fun to text and show off videos or just shoot the breeze than build aircraft

[CaptainTom]

I prefer the natural butter blends. Gotta have some salt too.

[CaptainTom]

I think Richard might be showing a little bitterness from recent events ?

[donlfaulkner]

And, apparently, rightly so.

[Imagebuffet]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

I think Richard might be showing a little bitterness from recent events ?

Naw, this isn't bitterness from recent events. This is all old bitterness!

[Imagebuffet]

Originally Posted by donlfaulkner

And, apparently, rightly so.

Thank you for having faith in me.

[Cajungaltx]

What you are telling me is that just because you believe the world *should* be a certain way, I am obligated to accept it, on grounds of fairness and openness.

No - you are obligated to accept it because in this country, I'm not required to walk 10 steps behind you, or accept that just because you have a penis, that you are more capable than I. Some people are born to lead... some are born to be led....I know without a doubt which side of the equation I am on. How about you?


Now, I've never been in a position where my opinion would keep women out or bring them in to anything. I'm just a worker, regardless, and I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of occupations. I've seen a lot of bad leaders, male and female; I can think of 3 male captains the Navy has dismissed over the last 25 years for inappropriate behavior. How do you suppose that all these unsatisfactory captains made it as far as they did? None of these people joined the Navy as the captain of a ship, and all of them had years on record for abusiveness. Does that not tell you anything at all about how people are promoted?

Richard - I grew up using the N word to describe black people. It's what my parents said... it's what I knew....it has taken YEARS to get to the point that I am at now...and even NOW, despite all of the knowledge in my head....in the right situation, I will IMMEDIATELY revert to thinking that is entirely race based. You might want to seriously consider evaluating your opinions on women...

Your original statement did not address the fact that the captain was a bad leader...your original statement SPECIFICALLY said that:

"What I notice is that strong, aggressive leadership is not natural to women, and those who demonstrate it usually are faking it, and over-compensate. Instead of being a strong, aggressive leader, they come out as shrill, or even mean."

And white wash it as much as you want... if I took the SAME statement and said it about someone of a different ethnic group than mine it would be JUST as ludicrous as YOUR statement about women.

You are generalizing....

Incidentally, the majority of people who join the military do not re-enlist, at least not more than once, if I recall the statistics correctly. That is the reason that the average age of Navy sailors is 19 years.

Everyone who enlists is not a good fit for the military... regardless of whether female or male. Statistics on whether they re-enlist, or how old they are does not matter one iota to me....your statement about women is what I was specifically addressing.

There is a difference between being a military officer and being a leader, too. Not every leader needs to be a military leader. Not every leader needs to be able to face physical combat. Not every job requires the same qualities that leadership on a ship at sea for 6 months at a stretch requires. So, my statements should not be interpreted to mean otherwise.

As for women bosses being high quality, don't tell me, show me. I'll give you that Texas has biases. More than one company in Texas has given me a hiring test that assumes that I know the details of baseball, and asks me questions based on what might happen to a team (this is an illegal test, btw).

Cry me a river. Seriously. You've previously posted your work history/experience on here...and while I believe running into jerks is just a regular part of business....at a certain point, YOU fit into the equation of what is occurring....

[Murph]

My impression is that this particular officer was being groomed to be the "first" female cruiser commander,and it was a bad choice. There are and will be other better commanders of the female ilk, than this one.

[Crashoran]

[Truckman]

Originally Posted by Murph

My impression is that this particular officer was being groomed to be the "first" female cruiser commander,and it was a bad choice. There are and will be other better commanders of the female ilk, than this one.

Very true...That would be like giving up on West Point just because its commander, Benedict Arnold, turned out to be a zero...Other women will step up to the plate and serve well in command positions......Ben

[shutterfire]

Popcorn Mystery Solved; Unpopped Kernel Breakthrough
By WebProNews Staff
From the "They Really Have People Who Study This?" file, comes today's top scientific breakthrough: scientists have discovered why some popcorn kernels don't pop.

Tom, Pass the butter this is good:

[brad]

It is an unfortunate reality in our society that a man exhibiting certain traits will be considered strong and assertive.. while a woman exhibiting the exact same behavior will be considered shrill or a bitch. Its getting better, but its still there.

I am a military brat and I can tell you that growing up in the 70s and 80s in that environment, I saw more bad male personnel (enlisted and officers) than I did female. Never bothered to do the math, but I would guess that percentages were about the same (ratio of good to bad, male or female).

As for female bosses.. I worked in IT for more than 20 years. I can tell you that I ran into a lot of men that were worthless, but nearly zero women... (I honestly can't think of any while I'm sitting here). And when it came to bosses, I preferred the women because they tended to be MORE competent than their male counterparts... they had to be to succeed in IT.

To even insinuate that women are not capable because their reproductive organs are on the inside instead of dangling loose is more than a little offensive. It puts you on an ignore list.

[CaptainTom]

My first wife divorced me and said I was mean. All these years I thought she meant I was just average.....

[heard03]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

Off to Sam's Club for the case of popcorn..

Awesome, Skipper. Rarely does something actually make me laugh out loud- that did. Perfect execution of a smiley.

[snydersnapshots]

Sounds to me that she was simply acting in the traditions of some of the best-know naval commanders of history: McQueeg from the Caine Mutiny, Captain Morton from Mr. Roberts and Ensign Pulver, Binghamton from McHale's Navy, and let's not forget Captain Bligh. She must've watched too many old movies when she was growing up.

It's an unfortunate fact that the military--as many civilian organizations--bends over backwards to be politically correct. Case in point: During the mid-80's, males were often washed out of Air Force pilot training while females were retained and given additional training. When a student would go through the process for being eliminated (review rides, check rides, faculty board, etc), the student could appeal to the Wing Commander to be given another chance. During the time period I'm familiar with, the only time a wing commander overturned a faculty board's decision was a female student. She was given additional training while male students who were just as skilled were not. I've seen the same thing happen in airlines who were afraid to let people go for fear of being sued (I've been with several airlines as I've progressed up the career ladder). This kind of treatment isn't fair--especially to the skilled women in those career fields. The unfortunate by-product is that the women who are skilled and extremely competent, the vast majority, have to overcome the assumption that they got where because of their plumbing and not their skills.

Having said that, I've flown with many women pilots and 99.9% of them could fly the heck out of an airplane. My best student when I was a flight instructor was a young lady right out of high school who went on to join the Navy and became a back seater in F-14's over Iraq (unfortunately her eyesight kept her out of pilot training). On the other hand, the biggest aeronautical bonehead I've ever run across was a white male.

How this woman ended up in command of a cruiser is not a mystery and would probably have happened whether she had been male or female. If she had been male, however, it MIGHT have made a paragraph in the local newspaper (if it got even that much attention). She was the daughter of an admiral. What sane officer was going to put his career on the line by giving her a bad Officer Effectiveness Report? The more OER's she received, the more a bad one would stand out and the superior who wrote it may have been singled out as someone who was not a "team player." The same thing happened in the Air Force with a pilot who was known as a cowboy in the B-52. Rather than give him a bad OER and take him off flyng status, they simply restricted younger co-pilots from flying with him. The results can be seen here. This PC attitude in the military is also how a radical muslim could work his way all the way up to the rank of major, leaving clues to his true convictions the whole way, and kill innocent soldiers on one of the largest military bases in the country.