Interesting PPA article: Photographer sued for declining to shoot same sex marriage

[Cajungaltx]

Hmmmm.....this was in my latest PPA magazine, and I thought it was rather interesting....and worth discussing.

In 2006, the photographer, Elaine Huguenin was contacted about photographing a commitment ceremony by Vanessa Willock. The photographer responded via email that her business does not photograph same-sex weddings.

So Willock filed a claim, citing discrimination against her on the basis of sexual orientation.

In April of 2008, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission ruled against the photographer.

The photographer appealed the ruling to the state court, and the state court denied her appeal early this year....stating that her business is one that services the general public, and as such, she is required to perform her job duties as such.

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The thing that bothers me about this - 1.) This gets into that gray 'religion' area - where if someone objects to gay marriage on their religious beliefs, requiring them to photograph an event that they are morally against - is a blatant disregard for their freedom.

The state obviously disagrees with my perspective - because they stated that the NMHRA doesn't force her to participate in or defend a belief system that is not her own - just that she attend the event in order to perform her professional services.

Based on their ruling, I could hire a photographer to photograph a medical procedure they disagree with (if they did any type of birth photography)....because if they advertise as a company that does a 'public' service, then they would be required to do that service..

What do you think?

There has to be a way to allow those who object to something, to not participate in it/attend it/support it - as part of 'their rights' - while not denying a person who supports something, participates in something to participate/attend/& support....

I don't do male boudoir sessions....but by this definition, if I lived in NM, I could not decide to offer only female boudoir sessions....otherwise I'm discriminating on the basis of sex.

[Truckman]

You're three threads late...

http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...-take-job.html

http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...tographer.html

http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...g-clients.html

And a dollar short, Donna...But it's OK I'll loan you the dollar......Ben

[ChristopherCoy]

Its all in how you word it. If someone told me the didn't photograph same sex weddings, I'd be pissed. However if they told me that they weren't comfortable shooting it and wanted me to get the best images possible, and subsequently referred me to someone else, then it wouldn't be a big deal. It's all in how you word it.

[shutterfire]

Originally Posted by ChristopherCoy

Its all in how you word it. If someone told me the didn't photograph same sex weddings, I'd be pissed. However if they told me that they weren't comfortable shooting it and wanted me to get the best images possible, and subsequently referred me to someone else, then it wouldn't be a big deal. It's all in how you word it.

So would you decline to shoot 2 ladies?

Capt'n shot with 3, this week. LOL

I agree that its all in how its handled. I recently had a female Employee ask me if I would shoot her Pregnancy Mom Bump photos. I told my wife about this and even asked my wife if she would attend the shoot so that I could stay politically correct. After I talked with my wife at length about this. I decided that this would not be in my best interest. In the future it could be potentially legally compromising. So I declined the opportunity and offered a referral to someone else. She declined the referral and stated that she understood my decision. So Does that mean I could get sued because I refused to do pregnancy photos?

[Flea77]

First, I agree that it is all in how it is handled. She did not have to say she did not do same sex weddings, she could have just declined and referred.

The other thing I find interesting is that Donna says the photographer may have religious objections to the wedding and therefor forcing her to photograph the wedding is a violation of her religious freedoms. I find that hogwash. If the photographer is Catholic, does that mean she refuses Methodist weddings? Jewish? Muslim? Or just same sex weddings?

Allan

[KdLaneJr]

Originally Posted by shutterfire

So would you decline to shoot 2 ladies?

Capt'n shot with 3, this week. LOL

I agree that its all in how its handled. I recently had a female Employee ask me if I would shoot her Pregnancy Mom Bump photos. I told my wife about this and even asked my wife if she would attend the shoot so that I could stay politically correct. After I talked with my wife at length about this. I decided that this would not be in my best interest. In the future it could be potentially legally compromising. So I declined the opportunity and offered a referral to someone else. She declined the referral and stated that she understood my decision. So Does that mean I could get sued because I refused to do pregnancy photos?

interesting question. Just from reading what you've posted I would say no, you couldn't be sued for not doing pregnancy photos, But this comes with a very large qualifier.. "as long as you have not previously done pregnancy photos and do not do any in the future". Either one of those would place your decision to not shoot your employee in that fuzzy area of discrimination and open you up to be sued.

As an aside, since your employee declined the referral, she either has confidence in your ability to photograph her and/or believes she could manage to be comfortable letting you photograph her. The comfort level may be why she declined the referral.

Perhaps it's all deeper than that and not fodder for the forum.

[ChristopherCoy]

Originally Posted by shutterfire

So Does that mean I could get sued because I refused to do pregnancy photos?

Anyone in their right mind would see that your choice was based on the fact that she is an employee, and you have to abide by the employer/employee code in the workplace. Shooting maternity photos of an employee could be miscontrued as a form of sexual harrassment if someone wanted to push it that far.

[wondershots]

I shouldn't be forced to shoot anything I don't want to shoot. Period! It's no different than if I met with a potential wedding client and got a "bridezilla" sense about the bride. Whether religious objections or just that fact that something "weirded me out" the libertarian in me says I shouldn't have to shoot it.

[ChristopherCoy]

Originally Posted by wondershots

I shouldn't be forced to shoot anything I don't want to shoot. Period! It's no different than if I met with a potential wedding client and got a "bridezilla" sense about the bride. Whether religious objections or just that fact that something "weirded me out" the libertarian in me says I shouldn't have to shoot it.

The problem is you wouldn't tell that bride she's a flat out bitch. You'd tell her you were booked, or felt that 'you weren't comfortable' shooting her event and would refer her.

[dmcantrell]

Is there a notion of "no-bid" in the wedding business?

In my business, if we don't want to engage with a customer -- for whatever reason -- we "no-bid" the job. This means that we enter a "zero bid" which is an accepted way of saying "we don't want to do this work for any price". No one has to give any reasons, and no one asks any questions.

[wondershots]

Originally Posted by ChristopherCoy

The problem is you wouldn't tell that bride she's a flat out bitch. You'd tell her you were booked, or felt that 'you weren't comfortable' shooting her event and would refer her.

Agreed.

[crackhead]

Oh man, this same thread blew up on rangefinderforum last month to the tune of 1,000+ posts before it got deleted.

Typical responses seen i.t.t., but at the very least I've got more names to throw on the ignore pile.

[ChristopherCoy]

Originally Posted by crackhead

Typical responses seen i.t.t., but at the very least I've got more names to throw on the ignore pile.

We can make the feeling mutual if you like.

[Jusselin]

so much hatred, i myself am half way ready to give up on America. The way things are today are so very perverse. People thinking because they feel one way you should be forced to accept it. Idk what ever happened to standing up for right and wrong, but in the near future it looks like i will be packing up my guns and family to move to Ireland. I miss the old America, i hope she comes back to me.

[Some Idiot]

Tough issue, she provides a service, like McDonalds or Walmart.... What if Walmart or McDoanlds decided not to serve gay's or black's because they claim it is against their company policy.............think they would be sued? In a heartbeat.... So yes, she is a private business, But ............

I think she should have just bowed out gracefully, But if you read the whole article she made a point to send them an email detailing why exaclty she was not going to shoot them...... (soap box)

Me on the other hand, If they are going to throw money at me....I'm clicking, My images do not define me as a person, I have shot many people that have different views on religion and life in general, I would not do, nor do I approve of their lifestyle for myself or my family, But I am not here on earth to judge what others do as right or wrong....

Tough issue