NY says pole Dancing is Taxable while Ballet is not

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

New York State Finds That Pole Dancing Is Not an Art Form - DailyFinance
Really how do you tax the place? Charge them to see each dancer who does an non-exempt dance and tax them while not taxing the guy who is watching an exempt dance?

[Cajungaltx]

did you see that mention of the $5 Texas tax in the article? It'll be interesting to see the ruling from the SC on that...

[Dobick]

While not at all used to decide case law -- common sense would dictate that the difference between a pirouette and a pole dance is not in the degree of difficulty nor in the artistic presentation, but strictly in the venue in which it occurs.

It is a very long stretch to think that a strip club can be argued to be a home of the arts in even the most non-traditional of applications.

Don't get me wrong -- I like strip clubs, but a source of artistic culture -- they are not!

[CaroleHayes]

Originally Posted by Dobick

While not at all used to decide case law -- common sense would dictate that the difference between a pirouette and a pole dance is not in the degree of difficulty nor in the artistic presentation, but strictly in the venue in which it occurs.

It is a very long stretch to think that a strip club can be argued to be a home of the arts in even the most non-traditional of applications.

Don't get me wrong -- I like strip clubs, but a source of artistic culture -- they are not!

Dancing is dancing, and the location doesn't matter.

If a ballet troupe has a performance at a mall or grocery store (and both happen!), they are no less "art" because of where the dancing happens.

Also, not all dancing is choreographed, so the argument from the article (about it not being art because it isn't choreographed) is complete and utter garbage. (And you'd probably be surprised at the number of choreographed routines you find in strip clubs.)

Anyway....

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by CaroleHayes

Dancing is dancing, and the location doesn't matter.

If a ballet troupe has a performance at a mall or grocery store (and both happen!), they are no less "art" because of where the dancing happens.

Also, not all dancing is choreographed, so the argument from the article (about it not being art because it isn't choreographed) is complete and utter garbage.
Anyway....

So the honkytonk dance hall should not have to pay taxes on the cover charge to get in the door because they are dancing?

(And you'd probably be surprised at the number of choreographed routines you find in strip clubs.)

and you would probably not be surprised to find out how non-important that choreographed routine is to the "patron of the arts" of pole-dancing (ie. the drooling drunk idiot sitting glassy eyed on perve row)

While there are exceptions, guys do not go to the strip club to see perfomances, they go to the strip club to see nudity, as well as to become an actor in the great screen play of the fantasy role that some very hot and lithe 22 year old finds the over-weight, out-of-shape, balding and lonely 43 year old man irresistable.

If they were to argue that in the same way that actors on the community theater are not taxed for their performances, therefore the very talented actresses involved in this fantasy production of sleazy makebelieve should not be taxed, then I could agree with that. But to say that a dancer is a dancer, and all are artist -- I just can't make that leap of logic with you.

[JohnT]

Ballet is art. Pole-dancing is sleazy.

My two cents.

[Jeff_Green]

Originally Posted by Dobick

So the honkytonk dance hall should not have to pay taxes on the cover charge to get in the door because they are dancing?

Apples and apples, man. The honkytonk dance hall has customers who do the dancing, not the employees. What makes ballet more artistic than burlesque? And who is to say? What is the difference between burlesque and "strip club" dancing? a pole? I have seen some amazing things done on those stripper poles (in videos of competitions) and I could very easily see it being an art.

[Dobick]

I was responding to the quote "Dancing is Dancing"

as I mentioned -- I can easily see the argument made that this is a performance theater. But I have a hard time equating the well accepted practice of artistic dance with that of a stripper.

That being said -- I think that there are enough taxes as is, and am not in favor of new more intrusive and directed punitive forms of taxation (such as taxes on beer or cigarettes as a deterent)

But I think it is a disservice and a logical stretch to equate a ballet dancer with someone who's primary objective is to collect as many singles during a song as possible. I see it this way -- either accept that pole dancing is a business only and not an art form, or do not allow the artistic expression to be interrupted with the one dollar tip. If it was an artistic performance, the dancer would be upset to be continually interrupted while expressing the feeling and artistry of their show.

I have seen some amazing things done on those stripper poles

I have also seen some amazing things done with ping pong balls... not really sure that's art that I want endorsed by the state through tax breaks and government grants!

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

What about the dancers who use silks? What about the Cirq folks?

Man I am glad it was ping pong balls and not tennis balls!

[photonewb]

Originally Posted by Dobick

While not at all used to decide case law -- common sense would dictate that the difference between a pirouette and a pole dance is not in the degree of difficulty nor in the artistic presentation, but strictly in the venue in which it occurs.

It is a very long stretch to think that a strip club can be argued to be a home of the arts in even the most non-traditional of applications.

Don't get me wrong -- I like strip clubs, but a source of artistic culture -- they are not!

there's a county in Central Florida that passed a "no nude" law, and to get around it a club began performing Shakespeare. Because it was considered "art" they were allowed to go full nude...lol