Instructor Review Request - Kerry Allan

[Kalrog]

Hello all! My wife has found a 3 day workshop that is local to us and looks fairly informative and reasonably priced, but workshops really come down to the instructor in terms of how good they are. I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with Photography Schoolhouse workshops and specifically Kerry Allan as a lead instructor. This workshop is somewhat large in that they are expecting to break into 2 groups so there will have to be at least 1 additional instructor who isn't listed...

[CaptainTom]

Can we assume that this class is in the United States ?
In Texas ?
In Fort Worth ?
In Dallas ?
In Leander (wherever that is) ?
Am I getting close ?

[firenut]

Did a search on the company and it looks like they will be in Austin, Tx for a 3 day Seminar on Nov. 1-3, 2010. Now as for your question........

Sorry, don't have a clue.

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by firenut

Did a search on the company and it looks like they will be in Austin, Tx for a 3 day Seminar on Nov. 1-3, 2010. Now as for your question........

Sorry, don't have a clue.

I generally don't do detective work for people unless they agree to my terms of service.....

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by Kalrog

Hello all! My wife has found a 3 day workshop that is local to us and looks fairly informative and reasonably priced, but workshops really come down to the instructor in terms of how good they are. I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with Photography Schoolhouse workshops and specifically Kerry Allan as a lead instructor. This workshop is somewhat large in that they are expecting to break into 2 groups so there will have to be at least 1 additional instructor who isn't listed...

Good Morning Nathan,

I hope this is the same person, if not please disregard everything below. I did a quick search on Google for the name Kerry Allan. It looks like this person has been out of the photography game for a while.

Some behind the scene videos
Kerry Allan's videos on Vimeo

His website says he no longer shoots.
Scottsdale Arizona Photography, Family & Wedding Photographer, Scottsdale AZ


No activity on his blog after Feb 2010
Kerry Allan’s Weblog


No activity on Twitter after March 2010
Kerry Allan (kallan4446) on Twitter

[Tom]

There are a lot of snake oil sales men right now preying on unsuspecting newbie photographers. I don't know if Kerry Allan is among those but it is quite prevalent in the industry right now. There is just a ton more money in selling to photographers than there is in working the actual business.

Read this review from a 'workshop' from Scarlett Lillian.
Scarlett Lillian Workshop Review | Pittsburgh Wedding Photographer | Leeann Marie Photography

This is what you are getting quite often now.

Buyer beware. I think you are much better off finding a nice photographer in your area or an area close, and offering to take them to dinner to pick their brain. Your miles may vary, but I am happy to share anything on photography. When I went to Joe McNally's seminar, he said "There are no secrets in photographer. Well, if there are, no one has shared them with me. Share the knowledge." Quite a profound statement, and something I stick with.

If you want to learn a specific skill, find something on that skill by someone you consider an absolute expert.

For instance, I have been to one workshop. I knew I needed lighting help, so I went to the master. I paid $350 for a 1-day workshop with Joe McNally. There were 12 of us there, and it was incredibly helpful. That $350 was some of the best money I have spent in photography.

I am not a fan of large workshops. That means less individual help, and the instructor is divided. Most of the big time guys like Joe McNally limit it to 10-12 people. The workshop I went to with Joe had 12 people. Teaching it was Joe AND three assistants. Joe or any of his assistants could answer any question we had. 4:1 student:instructor ratio was very nice and I think I got much more out of it than I would have otherwise.

[Kalrog]

Capt'n - It is the one in Austin in November, but I wasn't sure that was relevant since I was asking about a person instead of a specific workshop by that person. Oh, and Leander is a suburb of Austin.

Sonny - Thanks. As I understand it he is teaching instead of shooting now. I know he has some involvement with the Photography Schoolhouse and my wife has been happy with the webinars she has taken through them. But that doesn't directly translate into him being a good teacher.

Thomas - Thanks for the offer. This forum has been great for offering advice and assistance like that. The thing that entices me about some workshops is the fact that it will bring up things that I might not have even known to ask (maybe). But it has all of the supplies/models/etc lined up for immediate practice of a potential new topic. And at under $500 for 3 full days, the price is certainly right on this one... *IF* it is good.

Thanks all! Still hoping that someone has taken an actual class or workshop through either this company or instructor. Anyone else?

[Tom]

That workshop just doesn't look that great to me.

Why did Allan quit shooting? If it was that successful, he wouldn't quit a profitable business. Do you want to learn how to run a successful business from someone that just closed up shop?

The more people at a workshop, the less you will probably get from it. Less time actually participating, less time for questions, less individual instruction, etc. In the last two years, he has blogged two weddings and a couple model shoots.

I would want to learn from people that are successful, not someone that went out of business and is trying to parlay a little knowledge into massive workshops. If you are in group A, what are you doing while group B is shooting? They are breaking into 4 groups. A&B on Tracks 1 & 2. Kerry can't be teaching all those.

Then he teaches using social media. He has tweeted ONCE since October, 2009. Eight months. Once. He has 69 people following him on Twitter.

He doesn't have a facebook fan page. Or if he does, he isn't a fan of it himself (which I am not sure is possible.)

Why would you spend money learning how to market yourself through social media from someone that doesn't use social media?

Then on Day 2, he teaches how to run a business. And he did for 25 years according to his website. But he is now out of business.

They go over a lot of things I personally would like to get better at. But I don't think this would sell me. I'm pretty cynical, but I don't think a 90 minute session at each topic is really enough to learn it. Especially when you are sharing that session with a dozen or more people.

And the Photography Schoolhouse website and logo kinda sucks. I'm shallow. That is important to me. Especially when you are an imaging professional.

This may very well help you. But I think a focused seminar on what you are really trying to be an expert in would be key. This seems more like a seminar to boost your portfolio. Workshop pics in a portfolio are always VERY noticeable. That may be exactly what you are trying to get, and I think that is what this is geared towards.

So what are you trying to learn? What part of the business do you want to dominate? Seniors? Weddings? Families? Babies? Find something tailored to that from someone successful at it. Gary Fong recently said on his blog - don't be afraid to ask for their tax forms. Verify that they are actually making money at shooting before you pay them money to teach you how to run a successful business when they aren't running one themselves.

[Sonny]

Thomas,

I can understand your intentions about other members taking precautions when inquiring about Kerry Allan's workshop. To a certain extent I feel the same way, but at the same time we cannot automatically discredit him. It's not like Kerry Allan is in here breaking the rules and trying to advertise for free. We have one member that is eager to learn and he inquiring about this one workshop. I'm sure you understand that your needs for learning are far different than the needs of many newer photographers joining this forum. We have to consider this before we reply. We do our best to provide our members with enough information so they may make an education decision.

In a recent thread you were concerned about another member potentially ruining your reputation due to unfavorable words. To an extent, you are doing the same thing to Kerry Allan. We have no idea why Kerry Allan quit shooting and moved on to workshops, but I can think of a few very successful photogs that have done the same thing. There's good money in teaching workshops. Not only are the workshop profitable, but these same people can also sell DVDs, actions, presets and many other items.

I appreciate you wanting to be helpful and protect other members from misguided workshop providers. Thanks again.

-Sonny

[CaptainTom]

suggestion

TexasProPhotoMagazine.com

[Tom]

To a certain extent I feel the same way, but at the same time we cannot automatically discredit him.

I'm not completely. The way it is set up, it has the feel of more of a portfolio boosting workshop rather than a learning workshop - not that you can't learn from a port workshop. From the OP, it seemed like they were trying to learn more than port build.

I'm sure you understand that your needs for learning are far different than the needs of many newer photographers joining this forum.

Yes, I wasn't looking at it from my perspective, and I thought I made that clear. When you are a newer photographer trying to build business, I believe it is much better to focus on one thing and really learn that, rather than learn a little bit of a lot of different things. I didn't know this when I started out and I tried to do EVERYTHING and I think my career really stalled a few years because of it. I still like to shoot lots of different things, but I really only pour my heart into a couple things. I do some other outlying things for fun as a hobby - like panoramas and sports photography. They net me a little cash from time to time, but by and large, they do not.

We do our best to provide our members with enough information so they may make an education decision.

And that is what I was trying to do. The OP may not really care about individual attention and instruction and the way that workshop (and many like it) is set up is ideal for them.

In a recent thread you were concerned about another member potentially ruining your reputation due to unfavorable words.

What concerned me was that two posters were allowed to lie about me and slander me. When it turned out that I was correct in my assertions, one gave a half-assed apology and admitted I was correct and the other deleted the lies they posted. I don't think that those attacks on me were warranted nor do they fall into the rules of this forum. I do realize I can be abrasive and sarcastic, but as far as I know, that isn't against the rules here. Openly attacking someone and being dishonest about them is against the rules here, yet the forum let it go without any condemnation of those specific actions. Yes, it does concern me when people lie about me on a public forum. As far as I can tell, I haven't done that to anyone and when I do make mistakes, as everyone does, I am always quick to retract the mistakes I made.

To an extent, you are doing the same thing to Kerry Allan.

I've giving my opinion of the workshop in question as far as I can find information. While some of the things may be negative to me, they may be a positive to someone else.
From Mr Allan's blog, you can tell that he knows how to light things. He understands lighting quite well and used it successfully in a number of ways. He has a pretty traditional style, yet makes use out of a good bit of post processing (which not a lot of traditional photographers do.) He tends to shoot tight, shoots a wide variety of things and does lots of work in studio.

We have no idea why Kerry Allan quit shooting and moved on to workshops, but I can think of a few very successful photogs that have done the same thing. There's good money in teaching workshops. Not only are the workshop profitable, but these same people can also sell DVDs, actions, presets and many other items.

This is true, and I am not writing him off. I believe I said I had no clue why he stopped shooting. I try to keep up with the leading photographers in the genres I am interested in and have never heard of him - probably because he hasn't done a lot of shooting in the last two years (current fav is Tony Hoffer of Philly.)
And he could be a MUCH better teacher than anything else. I really don't know. I think I am better at teaching what I know than I am at shooting it. A guy I learn a lot from and work with quite a bit is MUCH better at shooting and can't explain a thing. When I went to Joe McNally's workshop, I was pleased to see that he was great at both.

He could have gone into the DVD/Website/Template/Action market, but I haven't seen any of that anywhere, nor have I found a website selling that stuff. Hell, he could have made so much money over the years as a wedding and portrait photog that he retired and is just teaching what he knows because he likes staying involved and only charges enough to cover renting the showroom, buying lunch and paying the models (who probably don't need lunch - just water and saltines ). Any number of things like that are possible and plausible. Like I have said, I don't know. But I do know that when someone is teaching a class on using social media for your business, but they aren't actively engaged in facebook or twitter, it sets off alarms with me - I don't think I have stepped out of bounds by saying that.

The rest of his workshop - it kinda depends if it is the right one for you. He obviously has the camera skills and portfolio to know how to take pictures that sell. You could probably learn a lot about his teaching style and if that meshes with your learning style from his videos. I would probably contact them about the class group size, if that is a concern for you (it would be for me.)

Another point to look at is to look at the portfolio of the teacher. Do you want to take pictures like him? That is what you are going to learn. He may be exactly what you want to follow. He may be nothing like what you want to follow. Totally a personal vision thing.

Like the OP said - they may not know all the right questions to ask another photographer - I feel like I can help them look at some of the right questions to ask about a workshop, too. Not every workshop style is right for everyone that wants to take one. We really don't know what the OP is looking for. Sorry if my posts have come off as something other than what they were meant - just trying to be helpful for the consumer. I've never sold anything to any photographer other than used equipment and have no plans to. I'm not competing here or anything like that. Just wary of all the multitudes of workshops/actions/etc. And that isn't to say I don't buy them or wouldn't attend them. I would love to do a Rolando Gomez workshop that didn't involve nudity. I would love to go to a Scott Watters workshop if he had one. I would love to do another Joe McNally workshop. Again - what we want is all personal preference, and I am not saying Mr Allan is bad or can't teach or can't shoot. But I would want to know a good bit more about his workshop before I registered.