It will change your mind forever...

[cassmartinez]

You can watch the full movie on that site. I'm going to watch it when the kids aren't around. It's 1 1/2 hours.

[GypsyHighSide]

Originally Posted by jeff_green

a lot of that is sad depictions of human devolution.

That said,

i like to eat meat.

+1

[trac76002]

Nothing wrong with eating meat, but there is no excuse for treating animals in such a horrific manner!

[dwilliams35]

Sure, it happens and needs to be exposed. What's not right about it is the implication that such behavior is the norm and that everybody involved in agriculture, hunting, fishing, etc. etc. etc. is simply a monster. You can always come up with anecdotal video in support of whatever agenda you've got: these people's agenda is quite apparent...

[kimberley]

the fact that it happens at all it appauling to me...weither its the norm or not.....animals should never be treated like this...ever! agenda or not...I applaud them for their agenda , sadly it wont change, my hubby and I talked at length about this subject and its heartbreaking but as sad as it is it wont change...but I will tell you after watching this video yesterday morning and then going grocery shopping...let me tell you I looked at every package of meat diffrently....


and donnie I may be wrong I couldnt get through the whole 1.5 but I dont think they ever said that EVERY person does this....they were exposing the ones who do...again i may be wrong and they might have said every single person treats animals like this.... ")

[Dobick]

I agree with Donnie on this, and also have my own take on it.

Even the most humane facilities that take into account the well-being of the animals that they are harvesting can be shown to be excessively cruel during the killing process. Death, when exposed to the unflinching judgement of a camera, is rarely a beautiful event.

Many of the images were intended to show a relatively benign activity like a butcher table immediately preceeded or followed by an image of a crowded animal in horrific conditions, so that you linked in your mind the horrific image with eating meat. I don't believe that people are cruel to animals for the sake of being cruel. I am not sure why those folks in Japan would gather up those dolphins for slaughter, but obviously there is a market for it. I am not saying that market economies should become our moral guidepost, but at some point in time harvest of animals becomes about efficiency.

Recently the movie "Temple Grandin" has been playing on HBO. There is a quote from that movie that really stuck with me. "Nature is cruel. We don't have to be." It was in response to why she was intent on building and implementing humane feedlot and slaughter systems. She showed with reason and the bottom line why it was economically beneficial to treat harvest animals with respect and humane conditions. The yeild and end product was better and there was less loss and a more efficient system when dealing with calm animals.

For the record, I am unapologetic about the fact that I eat meat, and I make it a point to eat meat that I have harvested myself as much as possible.

I wish that it was a requirement for everone in this country to toil at least once in their life for the food that ends up on their plate for just a day. I think appetites would change dramatically if people had to kill a cow and butcher a side of beef, pluck a chicken, clean a fish, milk a cow, gather eggs, raise a garden, and on and on and on.

as I said in my first post on this subject, most people do not want to know where the tasty sausage or bacon comes from, and they definitely do not want to see it from start to finish.

[Rson]

Originally Posted by dwilliams35

sure, it happens and needs to be exposed. What's not right about it is the implication that such behavior is the norm and that everybody involved in agriculture, hunting, fishing, etc. Etc. Etc. Is simply a monster. You can always come up with anecdotal video in support of whatever agenda you've got: These people's agenda is quite apparent...

+1

[ChristopherCoy]

The problem with threads like this, is that now I'll HAVE to go click the link, at least for a few seconds...


ETA: Well THAT certainly isn't the video to watch on Sunday morning.

I've been around the block with the slaughter stuff, specifically the horse slaughter market. I've formed my own opinions, and I know that the slaughter of animals for human consumption isn't a glamorous thing to see.

What I do have a problem with is stepping on a dogs head for the shear enjoyment of it. Or skinning a fox alive to watch it stumble around and blink its eyes. Or causing pain to an elephant just to hear it scream.

I dont hunt, but I dont fault hunters as long as they do it responsibly.

[dwilliams35]

Originally Posted by kimberley

the fact that it happens at all it appauling to me...weither its the norm or not.....animals should never be treated like this...ever! agenda or not...I applaud them for their agenda , sadly it wont change, my hubby and I talked at length about this subject and its heartbreaking but as sad as it is it wont change...but I will tell you after watching this video yesterday morning and then going grocery shopping...let me tell you I looked at every package of meat diffrently....


and donnie I may be wrong I couldnt get through the whole 1.5 but I dont think they ever said that EVERY person does this....they were exposing the ones who do...again i may be wrong and they might have said every single person treats animals like this.... ")

The problem is this: "let me tell you I looked at every package of meat differently...." How many of those packages of meat were produced in conditions like that? How many of them, on the other hand, started out in low-stress family farms, went through low-stress feedlots, and finally into sanitary slaughterhouses that practiced the "state of the art" in humane slaughter? THAT'S not going to get shown on any video put together by people who simply have the agenda to make people " look at every package of meat differently...." as a part of their larger goal..

There's millions of cattle being raised in this country right now under the low-stress "teachings" of Temple Grandin (as Dobick touched on), Bud Williams out in Bowie, and others: the industry as a whole came to the conclusion back in the '70s and '80s that humane treatment of animals is a good ECONOMIC decision: they simply produced higher-quality, and thus higher-yielding meat (and milk) with more humane and low-stress treatment. This wasn't just people "running scared" of the animal-rights terrorists, but a simple evolution of an industry toward higher profit-per-head practices... Of course, none of THAT is going to be put on a video put out by an animal-rights extremist group...

I'm certainly not going to posit that these things don't happen: it's pretty obvious that it does. That being said, people who have an agenda just really aren't interested in making movies with material that just doesn't support their agenda.. While you're looking differently at the meat counter at the local store, there's a really, really good chance (probably approaching 100% very hard) that absolutely none of that meat came from anything resembling the conditions in that movie. That's the fringe, and the products that come from such operations generally aren't of good enough quality to be allowed anywhere near an HEB meat counter. (they might make it into the cat food aisle)

My point? back to the movie: THAT is not the beef industry, THAT is not hunting, THAT is not fishing, etc. etc. etc.: THAT is a bunch of slimeball people who, be it because of cultural differences or them just being jerks, treat animals in a manner which we consider abhorrent. One video camera, one director with an agenda, and all of a sudden there's people in their audience that paint an entire industry or sport with a single, very disturbing brush. (" ..let me tell you I looked at every package of meat diffrently.... ") That is, of course, EXACTLY that director's goal....

[cooltouch]

Militant Vegetarianism

[ChristopherCoy]

Kimberly, you exposed it, now you have to tell me how to un-expose it. I can't get the vision of that skinned alive fox blinking its eyes at you out of my head.

[Duane]

I'm not about to open that link. A few years ago, doing 80 on a lonely west Texas highway, I stopped suddenly to chase my Avatar out of harms way. Who knows - maybe I might need a helping hand someday.

[kayumangi]

This is borderline politics and borderline religion, at least for me, because I'm part Igorot.


So this is what I'll say, before anyone passes judgement please do your homework. Stop relying on propaganda such as this to make your conclusions.

The video is meant to shock and I guess it achieved its goal. It is quite obvious that the producers of this video are not presenting everything.

Anyhow, I will not comment any further as I don't want to start a flame war.

Like I said, let us not be too quick to judge.

[iCe]

What I do have a problem with is stepping on a dogs head for the shear enjoyment of it. Or skinning a fox alive to watch it stumble around and blink its eyes. Or causing pain to an elephant just to hear it scream.

I dont hunt, but I dont fault hunters as long as they do it responsibly.

I didn't get all of the way through it. No point. The first minute or two was disturbing enough. A lot of that video is old. At least the parts that I saw were. Some things have changed and some haven't.

I understand the outrage over the intentional infliction of pain and suffering to an animal but I can never understand why there isn't the same level of outrage against people like Jeffrey Dahmer and the other loonies that are out there now and to come.

People suck? I reckon not. Some people do. The majority do not. I saw a post on a forum once that said people should be wiped off the face of the earth I was like- really? and what animal are you and who taught you how to use a computer.

The Inuit fought for and won the right to club seals to death because it's part of their culture. Personally I don't get that either. Their ancestors used a specific method of hunting to ensure their survival. I don't see that as being relative to today's world and I think those types of practices should not be allowed. Of course I'm not Inuit so I have a bias...

Having lived in a rural environment most of my life, I know about how long it takes to turn a cow, pig, or chicken into food. I know what an unpleasant and time consuming task it is. I know that no matter how you do it, killing something that is right there in your face looking at you isn't easy... at least not for me it isn't. It shouldn't be. If you get your jollies off doing it then you should probably have yourself evaluated because you ain't right. However, what should one do? Eat just fruits and berries like our early (I mean very early) ancestors DIDN'T. The human body evolved to need some amount of protein to grow and survive. Not soybeans. Meat protein and the enzymes, minerals, etc that come from eating it. Nothing against the Vegan / Vegetarians. Do what you want to. Don't bug me and I won't bug you.

Slaughterhouses are what they are. The are highly efficient food delivery "machines". If they weren't then (A) meat would cost a lot more than it does and (B) it wouldn't be as readily available. For some people that would be fine. For people like me it would force me to hunt a lot more than I do and/or raise my own animals and slaughter them myself. BTW- All of my kids hunt or have hunted. My oldest daughter is probably the most "intense" though intense is too strong. She enjoys bow and rifle hunting as well as fishing. The first time that I took her hunting and she killed her deer we were standing there looking at it and she said "I'm glad I got my buck but it makes me sad to see it laying there". I said "that's good baby girl. You should never "enjoy" the death of an animal. Being sad is the least you can do." I really thought that she would never hunt again after we cleaned and processed the deer but I was wrong.

I think that a lot of people need to thank God (or whomever they choose) that the world is somewhat civilized. A lot of people wouldn't last very long if it wasn't. There are 3 things that a person needs for survival. Water. Food. Shelter. In an uncivilized environment the difficulty of acquiring those things increases orders of magnitude. When you get down to it, humans are an intelligent animal and nothing more. We aren't as "special" as we think we are (to test that statement take a boat off shore and get out. Have someone time how long you go from swimmer to some creatures excrement). Take away the moral and legal compass and we are no worse than the Chimpanzee that kills another group of Chimpanzees baby, divides it up, and eats it or the Killer Whale that kills a Great White Shark and plays with it's body, eating only it's liver or the The Great White Shark that feasts on baby Seals swimming to shore off the Cape of Africa.

[donlfaulkner]

Very well said Michael.