Pixtus - Photography Forum, Photographers, Photo Tips

mmuhlenkamp · **Toeing the line between nursing home and prison -** 09-08-2010, 12:40 PM

Thought this was an interesting photo essay/article...

Toeing the line between nursing home and prison

revjvegas · 09-08-2010, 12:47 PM

Opinion aside regarding parole vs the crimes they commited etc, there are a few very compelling photos in there.

mmuhlenkamp · 09-08-2010, 12:50 PM

Yeah, I can kind of agree with either side of the issue, but I thought the photos were really good. Hopefully scare some would-be-criminals a bit, imagine living to be that old while in prison...

revjvegas · 09-08-2010, 12:55 PM

I'd have to say #10 of the 75 year old man holding a piece of bread is the most striking.

That one would make a good "do the crime, do the time" poster.

Howard Barlow · 09-08-2010, 02:59 PM

I guess they should have made different decisions, earlier in life, if they wanted to control where they were going to grow old.

texkam · 09-08-2010, 03:37 PM

Great images.

Quote:

I guess they should have made different decisions, earlier in life, if they wanted to control where they were going to grow old.

Perhaps we need images of the victims and their families too.

ka5txl · 09-08-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texkam

great images.
Perhaps we need images of the victims and their families too.

+1

RKEnnis · 09-08-2010, 04:52 PM

So they are supposed to reduce the numbers of aged in prison by giving them parole? Hmm... I assume they didn't go to prison because they are such nice guys.

And if they DID parole them, when should they do it? Right before they end up in the hospital/nursing care facility? Then they could either die on the streets or somehow try and get care on their own... It's not like convicted felons get S.S. or Medicare...

ka5txl · 09-08-2010, 04:59 PM

The tax payers would end up supporting them one way or the other, better to keep them where they are

TxLerman · 09-08-2010, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKEnnis

So they are supposed to reduce the numbers of aged in prison by giving them parole? Hmm... I assume they didn't go to prison because they are such nice guys.

And if they DID parole them, when should they do it? Right before they end up in the hospital/nursing care facility? Then they could either die on the streets or somehow try and get care on their own... It's not like convicted felons get S.S. or Medicare...

You asked the question when should they parole prisoners? The larger questions are: Is a prison's purpose for rehabilitation or for revenge? Which prisoners should be considered for rehabilitation? Is Prison there to punish the prisoner or provide a vehicle for revenge for victims and their families?

I have mixed feelings about Susan Atkins, the Charles Manson follower. Susan Atkins, afflicted with terminal cancer, weeks to live, paralyzed over half her body, comatose and bedridden, did not receive a compassionate release in the final weeks of her life because the parole board determined she was still a danger to society. I can never figure out how any comatose person is going to be dangerous to anyone. The victim's family said they wanted her to draw her last breath in prison and the parole board obliged them with a stupid reason. Where is the line between punishment and revenge?

RKEnnis · 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxLerman

You asked the question when should they parole prisoners? The larger questions are: Is a prison's purpose for rehabilitation or for revenge? Which prisoners should be considered for rehabilitation? Is Prison there to punish the prisoner or provide a vehicle for revenge for victims and their families?

I have mixed feelings about Susan Atkins, the Charles Manson follower. Susan Atkins, afflicted with terminal cancer, weeks to live, paralyzed over half her body, comatose and bedridden, did not receive a compassionate release in the final weeks of her life because the parole board determined she was still a danger to society. I can never figure out how any comatose person is going to be dangerous to anyone. The victim's family said they wanted her to draw her last breath in prison and the parole board obliged them with a stupid reason. Where is the line between punishment and revenge?

I'm sure there is an element of revenge there somewhere, particularly for certain family members of victims.

But the real point I was trying to make was this: If a violent offender has spent the bulk of his life in prison, is it really appropriate to release them when they are old and require lots of care? I personally don't think so. Better to leave them where they are. For one thing they simply aren't equipped for life on the outside, especially when they are old and sick.

As for your specific example of Susan Atkins - I don't think she represented a danger to anyone. I'm sure there was an element of "revenge" if you will in the victims family's desire that she not be released.

My concern here is of a much more practical nature. She's paralyzed and comatose. What could have possibly been gained by her release? She may or may not have even been aware of the release. Then there is the question of where she would go. Some hospice on the outside that taxpayers are paying for? How is that better than leaving her where she was? It's not like she had family waiting at home for a tearful reunion. And after what she had done, how could she even EXPECT to be released? I'd argue that leaving her incarcerated was the logical choice.

texkam · 09-08-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Is a prison's purpose for rehabilitation or for revenge?

Sometimes neither, but rather to keep them removed from society.

When one demonstrates they can not and will not be a lawful member of our society, then in order to protect our society, they must be removed from our society and IMHO incarceration is the most civilized method. The end result is sad for all parties involved. This is captured so well in these pics.

danchez · 09-08-2010, 09:41 PM

a few comments, I don't think it's as much revenge as it is the reckoning. I am against the death penalty, but not against people dying in prison for committing murders.

lots and lots of compelling images in this story, the one thing that struck me as kind of awkward is the "buy this photo" link on each image...

Howard Barlow · 09-08-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxLerman

You asked the question when should they parole prisoners? The larger questions are: Is a prison's purpose for rehabilitation or for revenge?

Prison is a penalty you pay for demonstrating you have no regard for society.

TxLerman · 09-09-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKEnnis

I'm sure there is an element of revenge there somewhere, particularly for certain family members of victims.

But the real point I was trying to make was this: If a violent offender has spent the bulk of his life in prison, is it really appropriate to release them when they are old and require lots of care? I personally don't think so. Better to leave them where they are. For one thing they simply aren't equipped for life on the outside, especially when they are old and sick.

As for your specific example of Susan Atkins - I don't think she represented a danger to anyone. I'm sure there was an element of "revenge" if you will in the victims family's desire that she not be released.

My concern here is of a much more practical nature. She's paralyzed and comatose. What could have possibly been gained by her release? She may or may not have even been aware of the release. Then there is the question of where she would go. Some hospice on the outside that taxpayers are paying for? How is that better than leaving her where she was? It's not like she had family waiting at home for a tearful reunion. And after what she had done, how could she even EXPECT to be released? I'd argue that leaving her incarcerated was the logical choice.

To me, the issue of what is practical is inmate/situation dependent. In the case of Ms. Atkins, her husband/lawyer wanted to bring her home to die surrounded by her family and friends. He pleaded multiple times. Having watched several of my ederly relatives pass away, I can understand that desire to pass surrounded by friends and family, not prison guards.

The second point you made about what she should expect. Well, her sentence included the possibility of parole. If you don't plan on releasing a
prisoner, don't include the possibility of parole. It creates a false expectation for the prisoner.

In addition to these two points, there is the larger question. When a prison becomes a nursing home, is it still a prison? If it really is a nursing home, should the inmate residents be released to their families if they have family members willing to take them? If they need to be in a nursing home, it is highly unlikely they have the capacity to commit a crime. It is easy to say to a convict at trial, you will die in prison. It is another thing 40 years later when they spend the last few years as a geriatric patient that requires alot of expensive medical assistance and do not have the physical capability to harm anyone rather than a prisoner. Showing a little compassion is a good thing in a world that currently seem bent on revenge for everything.