FL police vs. CA police...

[janikphoto]

This is not politics or religion, so it should be fine to discuss... even though I know it might stir up a heated debate!

I was watching some old Dateline NBC Chris Hansen "To Catch a Predator" re-runs on MSNBC and got a chance to see several different city and state police departments in action. Most of the departments across the country were as you'd expect... Authoritative and swift, but not excessively aggressive or physical with the suspects.

I was surprised by two things:

First, The Riverside, CA department was overly nice, quiet, civil and polite to the suspects. Common sense would've had you believe they were being too quiet and polite, possibly allowing the suspects to feel like they could get the upperhand. However, their arrests appeared to be the smoothest and easiest of all the episodes. They didn't have to throw anyone to the ground. They quietly told everyone to turn around, and they were able to handcuff everyone without resistance.

Second, A Florida city (I forget the exact city) was nearly brutal with everyone. The FL dept. threw everyone to the ground and put knees in their backs or on their necks. They had multiple officers screaming multiple commands at once. One officer tore a suspects cellphone from his hand and threw it far away across the driveway. Several suspects had cuts and scrapes. What I assumed would've been an effective way of subduing a suspect suddenly appeared to be a horribly chaotic and messy arrest.

Now, let's not confuse this topic of police procedures with the horrible actions of the predators/suspects on the show. I personally think they deserved to be arrested, convicted and thrown in prison. I was shocked during the follow-up info to see than so many of them only received 90 or 180 days in jail for their actions. Preying on children, they deserved so much more. However, this thread wasn't created to discuss them or their actions. I am trying to find out what makes certain police procedures OK in one city and not in the next.

The show mentioned that "because of the ability to easily obtain a Concealed Carry permit in Florida, the police had to act that way." Not a direct quote, but a summary of their excuse... Really? Do the FL police throw every speeder and red light runner to the ground because they might also have a legal CC firearm on them? For half a second, I thought to myself, "Oh, that makes sense... wait a minute?!? That is total BS!" Police don't automatically get to brutalize the public because they are in a CC state?!?!?

Oh, and the other funny thing about these two depts? Riverside had a 100% conviction rate of the men shown and the Florida dept had to drop the charges on two of the men?!? Surely a coincidence, not related to the way they handle their arrests, but still... I was shocked that the least aggressive dept came out looking like the winners. So, ultimately I ask, "Are Florida Cops really THAT bad? At what point do you NOT treat the public in such a physical manner?"

[Flea77]

Call me nuts but I have always thought that many law enforcement people go way overboard. Not all of course. Just like any group there are good and bad. While I firmly believe that LEOs should be well paid, well trained and well equipped, I also believe that like the Riverside dept you describe they should be respectful and courteous to everyone (even during the arrest of suspects) unless they have no choice.

Just my two cents.

Allan

[jeffro20]

Just taze 'em and cuff 'em.

[dwilliams35]

The CA departments still have Rodney king on their mind...especially when they KNOW there's a video camera right there.

[SCone]

Ratings........

[jkderby]

Originally Posted by jeffro20

Just taze 'em and cuff 'em.

Right on !!!!

[jbelcid]

Unless you see every arrest from each of these two departments how is it conclusive that Riverside is the "nicer" department? Could be that one arrest. Next arrest they could have bashed in a suspects head with a streamlight. To many variables left out (as often are on these shows) to even come close to analyzing it.

[silversixx]

I hate that show, just like I hate cops. We are watching people being exploited for the things they did wrong. Yea they did horrible things, and probably deserve it but its made that way for TV. Just like in other countries when you watch the news they show suicides, murders and add in sound effects to make it "entertaining". Its so sick.

I also cant believe these people are only getting 90 days to a year or so in jail, that is sick... and people are in jail for 20+years for drugs.

[bgpro611]

When you say you hate cops I hope you're talking about the show not officers. They have a very hard job for not much pay and face the possibility of getting shot on even a routine traffic stop. If you think they are being overly rough maybe you should walk in their shoes for a few days, Personally I think they show almost unbeleiveable restraint on that show, far more than I would. I'd be thumping some heads in a lot of cases!

[silversixx]

Originally Posted by bgpro611

When you say you hate cops I hope you're talking about the show not officers. They have a very hard job for not much pay and face the possibility of getting shot on even a routine traffic stop. If you think they are being overly rough maybe you should walk in their shoes for a few days, Personally I think they show almost unbeleiveable restraint on that show, far more than I would. I'd be thumping some heads in a lot of cases!

sorry, I ment the show cops.

[janikphoto]

Originally Posted by jbelcid

Unless you see every arrest from each of these two departments how is it conclusive that Riverside is the "nicer" department? Could be that one arrest. Next arrest they could have bashed in a suspects head with a streamlight. To many variables left out (as often are on these shows) to even come close to analyzing it.

Oh, I agree with you about almost everything you said. There ARE too many variables, including the editing done by Dateline. And the departments may act differently with other suspects that aren't on television. My comments weren't meant to be a Zagat's survey, so to speak. I hardly expected people to say, "Oh, well, I can make a final judgement on these two departments based off this one observation.

However, you assume I am basing things off one arrest. The show actually developed enough content to make three full hour episodes from each city, with each city netting approximately 50 suspects! They show most of them, so I think I had more than an arrest or two to consider. But, as you said above, they may be altering their normal procedure to look nicer or tougher than they normally are...

The one thing that can't be disputed, whether or not Riverside is normally this respectful to their suspects, is the fact that all their arrests seemed to go very smooth and without issue. Caught on camera, it showed that a firm and respectful voice from a lead officer works better than multiple officers screaming similar (but slightly different) commands from all directions.

And again, the 50 or so men are a small slice of a city's demographic. This polite stance may not work with gang bangers or terrorists. I can't extrapolate the small amount of info I have and apply it with such a broad stroke. I'm just trying to open up a thoughtful debate on the subject.

[jbelcid]

Fair enough as I've never watched the show. And as such I did assume it was more "cops" like where you see one or two arrests a show from different departments. As a law enforcement officer each arrest is different. I would love for each arrest to go smooth and calmly. Unfortunately it goes to crap every once in a while too. As a standard I maintain a calm and cool demeanor, I let each person I come in contact with dictate how our situation will be. If they stay calm, then it goes smooth. If they act like a asshat well they get dealt with like one.

Anyways, sorry for jumping the gun on ya about the show

[Abel]

"Don't tase me bro!"

[sbug_adam]

Originally Posted by janikphoto

Now, let's not confuse this topic of police procedures with the horrible actions of the predators/suspects on the show. I personally think they deserved to be arrested, convicted and thrown in prison.

what actions? wanting to make the bang bang boogie with a minor is illegal?

I've wanted to bash the glass door of a convenience store and take a bunch of lotto tickets, am I a suspect or a criminal?

Tangent but still. I see that all the time on tv about excessive force. My brother who is a cop for almost 20 years will tell you that the reason people hate cops is because of that excessive force.

Admit it, if you were stopped for speeding and the cop was being a dick, taking you out of your car, patting you down, etc.. to you would you have a sour taste in your mouth everytime there was any possibility of police involvement. Theres no one to blame but the poor leadership in the world of police officers.

[CallMeAl]

Originally Posted by silversixx

I also cant believe these people are only getting 90 days to a year or so in jail, that is sick... and people are in jail for 20+years for drugs.

One thing to remember is that the police don't determine the sentences. That's the juries and judges. The judges being elected by you, the public, and the juries being you...the public. This is not directed at you, but if you (everyone in general) are ever called to serve on a jury...keep that in mind when it comes to the sentencing phase.