Oil

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

WTF?
http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petro...highlights.pdf

Looking at the weekly report and last years numbers there is no real big pressure here that is driving prices up which to me indicates that the Wall Street Traders have their noses in this run up which to me is BS!

Heck one bozo over the weekend was talking about $5+ a gallon gas by the end of the year.
This Week In Petroleum
International Energy Agency - Oil Market Report
indicates world oil demand is up less than 10% from last year which doesn't indicate such a large price run up.
Bet the Airlines and shipping companies are scratching their heads over this too!

[gardener]

Remember also that China and India have been in the news of late as being more oil hungry to fuel the rising numbers of vehicles that are being bought by the populace.
More demand leads to pricing increases as more bidders enter the market for oil, gasoline, and other petroleum products. Unlike some other commodities that tend to lower in price when there is a surplus or even adequate supplies, petroleum products tend to go higher as supply remains the same even when there is more demand. High bidder gets to fill their tank...
JMO...

[KrisLos]

You should see the amount of $$ that China is investing in offshore of Brazil!!

[Flea77]

Not to mention that China just got a deal that gives them a contract price for xxx number of barrels right off the top, leaving the US to fend with the others for what is left over. That alone will raise the price a pretty good bit.

Allan

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

But you have to look at the supply side and we are well over normal inventory levels for this time of year. The people talking about China and India's demand for gasoline (most of their power generation is either coal or hydro very little natural gas or oil based) tend to overinflate the actual demand for refined products by them, yes it is growing but from such a low base the percentages are misleading. If you look at one of the links it indicates that world usage is up but that amount is well under 10% which would indicate that refrined products should be up around the same percentage amount and not close to double that.

Now since most oil trading is done in $'s and not other currencies the value of the $ should come into play here and the dollar is up against the euro from last year and the relationship with the yen is about the same while the Chinese Yuan is not real reliable since the Chinese govt has an artificial price over it.

So to me it looks like the traders are in this just like they were in power and natural gas about 5 years ago when they screwed everything up-aka Enron- which puts artificial price pressures on the product and $$ in their pockets since they seldom if ever take delivery. Now I am not against users of oil and it's production goods buying futures in their items (ie railroads/shipping companies/airlines/utilities or even companies that sell propane and heating oils) but some trader for a Bank/Investment Firm/or just a Yahoo playing in the market that is just "trading" in oil futures to me should be really restricted to the volume of contracts that they can handle. Do we really want another Enron type situation?

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

BTW contrary to a lot of talk the US actually imports little oil from the Middle East, that oil tends to be very high in sulfur and most US refineries are not set up to handle it, while more refinery production has been built overseas that can handle it and they then ship refined product to the US market.

So a Shiek stating last week that he thinks the world can handle $100 a barrel oil is just him saying that he would love to get that much for his oil.

Do we need to go to another period where the oil companies book around $100 Billion in Profits a quarter like they did before the downturn?
Public Citizen Climate and Energy from a few years ago but gets you thinking why oil has gone up 50%+ since 2007 which is before we were in the recession.

[janikphoto]

I got to shoot an OPEC meeting once for a news service and it was surprising to hear some of the stuff they were saying! It basically sounded like they control the idea of supply and demand, raising and lowering prices to make oil capacity/use seem more volatile than it really is. I'm not saying it is TOTALLY made up, just that they actually plan and manipulate some (maybe much) of it.

[kamari]

Originally Posted by DEMDeepEllumMusic

WTF?
http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petro...highlights.pdf

Looking at the weekly report and last years numbers there is no real big pressure here that is driving prices up which to me indicates that the Wall Street Traders have their noses in this run up which to me is BS!

Heck one bozo over the weekend was talking about $5+ a gallon gas by the end of the year.
This Week In Petroleum
International Energy Agency - Oil Market Report
indicates world oil demand is up less than 10% from last year which doesn't indicate such a large price run up.
Bet the Airlines and shipping companies are scratching their heads over this too!

You (OPEC) control production of a product.

It just so happens that the world cannot function without that product.

You (OPEC) have the natural right to charge what you want for your product.

We (the consumer) get pissed about it, but in theory, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their (OPEC's) shoes? As a photographer, do you cut prices because somewhere in your kind heart you feel sorry for folks? Or do you think about the $ you know you're leaving on the table by leaving prices low? I'm in no way attacking you or anyone else. Just trying to look at it from a perspective different than the ones who hold the short end of the stick. Hey I hate it too, but until I open up my own refinery or get the rest of the world to stop depending on crude then I guess my pockets are gonna have to go along for the ride.

Think $3 a gallon is high? Take a look at some of the European countries like the Netherlands that import 90+% of their oil and are forced to charge $7 a gallon. I guess I'm trying to say we should be thankful that we only pay $3...until you look at countries like Nigeria and Venezuela, where gas is still considerably less than $1 a gallon. I guess you're either a player or you're one of the played when it comes to oil.

[janikphoto]

Originally Posted by kamari

Think $3 a gallon is high? Take a look at some of the European countries like the Netherlands that import 90+% of their oil and are forced to charge $7 a gallon. I guess I'm trying to say we should be thankful that we only pay $3...until you look at countries like Nigeria and Venezuela, where gas is still considerably less than $1 a gallon. I guess you're either a player or you're one of the played when it comes to oil.

Euro petrol prices are that high, in part, due to the higher government tax on it. The UK has about $3.50 per gallon of government taxes. The US has about $0.50 per gallon... And, some central and south american countries have such low fuel costs, because they have state-owned oil companies.

[ronocnikral]

Originally Posted by janikphoto

I got to shoot an OPEC meeting once for a news service and it was surprising to hear some of the stuff they were saying! It basically sounded like they control the idea of supply and demand, raising and lowering prices to make oil capacity/use seem more volatile than it really is. I'm not saying it is TOTALLY made up, just that they actually plan and manipulate some (maybe much) of it.

you just described why OPEC was created.

[janikphoto]

Originally Posted by ronocnikral

you just described why OPEC was created.

You make a great point! Many people think of OPEC as being some sort of multi-government oversight for the oil industry, like NATO for oil. I tend to forget it was set up by the oil giants to make sure they make the maximum sustainable profit possible.

[Coelus]

Prices are going up because we're still paying for it. They know we'll keep paying for it. Now that discretionary spending is up OPEC knows they can slowly cut into that amount before the public howls to loudly about it; like frogs in a pot of cold water just put over the fire.

[ronocnikral]

Originally Posted by janikphoto

You make a great point! Many people think of OPEC as being some sort of multi-government oversight for the oil industry, like NATO for oil. I tend to forget it was set up by the oil giants to make sure they make the maximum sustainable profit possible.

by oil giants, you mean national oil companies. Interesting enough, the idea of OPEC was conceived by a Venezuelan while in the US on political asylum. He studied how, and this hits close to home, the Texas Railroad Commission operated.

His famous quote...

Ten years from now, twenty years from now, you will see: oil will bring us ruin… Oil is the Devil's excrement.

Originally Posted by Coelus

Prices are going up because we're still paying for it. They know we'll keep paying for it. Now that discretionary spending is up OPEC knows they can slowly cut into that amount before the public howls to loudly about it; like frogs in a pot of cold water just put over the fire.

I get a very generous salary from an oil company and put more miles on my bicycle than I do on my car...now if I can just convince my wife to let me take our house "off the grid" with solar panels.

[Coelus]

I get a fair salary from an oil company and drive my suburban enough to ensure job security.

[hue-e]

I followed some of this information for a couple of years now.

Here's a good website that may help some people come to terms with the inevitability... Peak Oil, Matt Savinar, Life After the Oil Crash