State Park v Nat'l Park

[andyz]

I suppose it is a good weekend if you're going to shoot at a park, to go state instead of national. Sounds like the NPs may be closed.

[princer7]

I have a trip to Big Bend planned starting the 16th. As a backup plan I can make my way over to the state park. Any suggestions for amazing photo ops in the state park?

I feel really bad for the local businesses down there. As hard as it is to bring in an income already, this is going to really hurt them financially. I still plan on going.

[wclavey]

How would they actually close the Big Bend? I guess they could close the buildings (lodge, cabins, restaurant, nature center, office) in the Chisos Basin, and they could not man the kiosks at the entrances, but those are often unmanned anyway.

And if it is closed then there would probably be no rangers to check that you got your park pass for the days you are there... I thought the grocery store & gas station at Panther Junction was a private concession...

If you were there camping already, would they throw you out? I could see making you leave one of the cabins, but what about wilderness campers?

I have to believe there is a similar situation at many of the wilderness type parks. You may close the evidence of people or the convenience places, but it would actually be hard to "close the park" I would think.

[mdparthum]

Looks like if you can get into the park its okay but there will be no visitor services available.

[andyz]

No Picnic: National Parks Could Close - Washington Wire - WSJ

David Barna, a spokesman for the National Park Service, said roughly 10,000 campers and hotel lodgers staying within the national parks would be told to leave by Monday at 6 p.m.

[crbeveri]

Originally Posted by wclavey

How would they actually close the Big Bend? I guess they could close the buildings (lodge, cabins, restaurant, nature center, office) in the Chisos Basin, and they could not man the kiosks at the entrances, but those are often unmanned anyway.

And if it is closed then there would probably be no rangers to check that you got your park pass for the days you are there... I thought the grocery store & gas station at Panther Junction was a private concession...

If you were there camping already, would they throw you out? I could see making you leave one of the cabins, but what about wilderness campers?

I have to believe there is a similar situation at many of the wilderness type parks. You may close the evidence of people or the convenience places, but it would actually be hard to "close the park" I would think.

If you get caught it's considered trespassing on federal property and that's a big big no no.

In BBNP I would say yes you have a better change at not being caught if you stay off the main road but then again the gas station will be shut down so hope you have a hybrid.

[wclavey]

Thanks, Chris & Andy... I wasn't looking at it from the perspective of trying to get in or skirt the law... I was wondering what it actually means to shut down something that, by definition, is a wilderness... ostensibly, devoid of much development. I know how you shut down Disney World... it was a metaphoric wonderment...

[r0xikat]

I am beyond pissed at this (and the rest of the ridiculous debacle). I have plans to go to Zion and Bryce NP in Utah next week :[

only a skeleton crew would remain for emergency and imperative services at the parks... otherwise everyone else is at a standstill and doesn't get to work >_<

[crbeveri]

Originally Posted by wclavey

Thanks, Chris & Andy... I wasn't looking at it from the perspective of trying to get in or skirt the law... I was wondering what it actually means to shut down something that, by definition, is a wilderness... ostensibly, devoid of much development. I know how you shut down Disney World... it was a metaphoric wonderment...

No problem: I never took it as you were gonna sneek in there. But ya State Parks are owned by the state and there for state property. If the park is closed or you are not permitted to enter you are trespassing on State property.

The same is with National parks as I stated above however it is a federal crime to trespass on Federal Land (National Parks).

The park rangers (game wardens) are employed by the state and are equivalent to law enforcement and can make arrests (buddy of mine RIP learned this the hard way lol). These will probably be the people that patrol the larger closed National Parks. They will also probably put up road blocks to not allow visitors in.

[Dobick]

in 1995, I was in the military, and was told that even though te govt was technically "closed for business" that we had to show up for work each day if we did not want to find our selves in breach of contract, and subject to federal and military laws.

I suspect that clauses exist in each and every federal employees work contract that would prohibit them from showing up to work, meaning that the parks will very well still have a full staff of rangers at least in the short term.

[andyz]

Full staff, I don't know about that. But some maintenance has to be done, I'm sure.

Heck, they could have the military going in there if need be. But I suspect if it goes on long enough they'll have guards whose only purpose is to kick folks out. The whole thing is a shame.

[ST77]

Originally Posted by Dobick

in 1995, I was in the military, and was told that even though te govt was technically "closed for business" that we had to show up for work each day if we did not want to find our selves in breach of contract, and subject to federal and military laws.

I suspect that clauses exist in each and every federal employees work contract that would prohibit them from showing up to work, meaning that the parks will very well still have a full staff of rangers at least in the short term.

Military members and civil service are two totally different beasts, mil will show up or deal with the consequences. civ will be ferlowed except those deemed essential to the nation.

[brewercm]

Originally Posted by ST77

Military members and civil service are two totally different beasts, mil will show up or deal with the consequences. civ will be ferlowed except those deemed essential to the nation.

Bingo.
I was working with civil service employees at the time of the last shutdown and was stationed at Security Hill down here in San Antonio. I remember most of the civs were let off during that time but being in the business we were in there we had a few that still worked with us. It kind of brought on mixed feelings to be honest. You felt that it sucked that these guys had to be left off without pay. Then when they got to come back it was like they had a two week paid vacation. I know from their point of view it was no vacation but we all knew it wouldn't go too long. If this one happens I can guarantee that it will not get too close to the first of the month. Political suicide for all who don't pay out all them government checks when they are due (retirements, social securityl, veterans benefits, etc. etc.).

[mjdmike]

Rediculous.

Explains a little about what happened last time.

Possible shutdown of National Parks and Monuments, Monday April 11, 2011 - Lonely Planet travel forum

[princer7]

Looks like they are punting the budget issue until the end of next week. I wish Congress would start doing what they are paid to do intsead of acting like children.

Next week is/was supposed to be National Park week (April 16-24) and would have free admission into the park.....assuming they are officially open for business. LINK