Rental - Legal Question

[andyz]

My son lived with his girlfriend for about 9 months. He signed a rental application, but never signed the lease. They broke up and he moved out, then she did. We helped him pay 3 months rental when they were together and struggling. He also paid for her pet deposits. Now the landlord wants the rest from him as his ex who was the only one who signed the lease won't pay. She has moved on.

Collection company is threatening his credit saying that his signature on the application is all that is needed. Any one of those on the application can sign on the lease, binding all on the application.

That wouldn't work on a bank loan, and it doesn't sound right to me, but I know nada about rental agreements.

Is he legally bound to pay?

[Tom]

I'm not a lawyer, so I couldn't tell you for sure.

I don't think an application is a binding a agreement. Can you get a copy of the lease and the application?

[kenw]

seriously need a real lawyer on this one.

[andyz]

They emailed a copy of the application, but said legally only one of the applicants has to sign the lease, and only she did. We don't have a copy of the lease.

[Steelsun]

I'm not a lawyer, so this is not a legal opinion.

An Application is an application, they can be denied.
A lease is a contract.
The application is not a contract, unless the application says it is a binding contract.

Credit collectors are dirtbags and easily lie (even though it is illegal). I'd demand to see the lease, and check the application for language binding the signers if accepted.

[Noe]

My opinion from past experiences:
If the lease is a requirement, which it is on most places, and it does not have his name/signature on it then they cannot hold him accountable. If they cannot produce the lease agreement then they really don't have any proof.

[SCone]

I sell lawyers... if you want more details PM me.

[adamsheehy]

Originally Posted by andyz

My son lived with his girlfriend for about 9 months. He signed a rental application, but never signed the lease. They broke up and he moved out, then she did. We helped him pay 3 months rental when they were together and struggling. He also paid for her pet deposits. Now the landlord wants the rest from him as his ex who was the only one who signed the lease won't pay. She has moved on.

Collection company is threatening his credit saying that his signature on the application is all that is needed. Any one of those on the application can sign on the lease, binding all on the application.

That wouldn't work on a bank loan, and it doesn't sound right to me, but I know nada about rental agreements.

Is he legally bound to pay?

It just depends upon the wording on certain documents. If he signed the application, but not the lease (which is often provided at time of application signing) then there might have been a section or sheet that was a 'contemplated lease agreement' basically saying (and signing) that you would be signing said lease. Also, there can be wording to the effect of if one tenant files a notice or communication or complaint, etc that the management considers it effective for ALL tenants and vice versa.

Your son should be entitled to a copy of such, so just have him request whatever info and go over it very carefully. G/L

[andyz]

Thanks all. There is a box "Complete Lease Information" that is referenced elsewhere. It says if no lease is attached, that is the information that will be filled in on the completed lease. I don't see where there is an authority to make an application a commitment. I believe I will be asking a lawyer about this, but I don't want to throw good money after bad. (Even if it is my son's.)

[prncfarquad]

I have been in property management for the last 20 years and unless his name is on the lease he is not liable for rent. Even if he is listed as an occupant he is still not responsible. Now with that being said we use the TX apartment association leases and applications. If they used something different I would not know the answer.

You need to talk to the apartment complex in person not on the phone if possible, ask for a copy of the lease. They are bound by TAA rules to give you a copy IF he is a responsible party signed on the lease. if they refuse because he is not on the lease then they don't have a leg to stand on :)

You may also contact the Texas Apartment Association Believe it or not they are a very helpful source for renters as well.

From the management side of this. Don't go in demanding, argumentative, or down right abusive to the management. If they weren't asses before they will be if you don't go in calm and professional. If they give you crap or you get a smart a$$ in the office (which happens a lot in this industry) when asking for the lease just stay calm and seek an attorney's help.

Hope this helps.

[XtremePhoto]

Property Management here. Though not a lawyer, so do consult one. The Application is NOT a binding agreement. It does not specify payment etc. and details such as that on the Application. The LEASE agreement is the only binding agreement that they have and if he didn't sign it, he isn't bound by it.

Demand a copy of the lease and if they don't produce, they can't do anything to you. If they continue to call, ask them for their fax number and fax them a letter stating that it is not your debt, your name is not on the lease and that you wish all further contact to be stopped immediately.

Fax that to them and they should leave you alone. If they don't you can always certify it and mail it to them and they will stop or they are opening themselves up to a law suit.

Here is a direct quote from the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) whom handles this:

"How can I stop a debt collector from contacting me?

If a collector contacts you about a debt, you may want to talk to them at least once to see if you can resolve the matter – even if you don’t think you owe the debt, can’t repay it immediately, or think that the collector is contacting you by mistake. If you decide after contacting the debt collector that you don’t want the collector to contact you again, tell the collector – in writing – to stop contacting you. Here’s how to do that:

Make a copy of your letter. Send the original by certified mail, and pay for a “return receipt” so you’ll be able to document what the collector received. Once the collector receives your letter, they may not contact you again, with two exceptions: a collector can contact you to tell you there will be no further contact or to let you know that they or the creditor intend to take a specific action, like filing a lawsuit. Sending such a letter to a debt collector you owe money to does not get rid of the debt, but it should stop the contact. The creditor or the debt collector still can sue you to collect the debt."

-G-

Just a note, I am commercial property management but all of this is the same for us as it is for consumers. If a client doesn't take our calls, we actually turn it over to a lawyer and a they handle it. The next time they hear from us, it is a Court Order and they HAVE to answer that.

[andyz]

I told my son to re-request the lease and the collector said they've already done all they had to legally, but he could get one by requesting it from XYZ.

I am very familiar with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. They didn't even start by verifying that he had a debt. So I have my doubts about them.

Thanks for the info.

[RKEnnis]

Originally Posted by andyz

I told my son to re-request the lease and the collector said they've already done all they had to legally, but he could get one by requesting it from XYZ.

I am very familiar with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. They didn't even start by verifying that he had a debt. So I have my doubts about them.

Then you probably already know that if your son disputes this charge with the collection agency, THEY are required to verify the debt.

Your son should IMMEDIATELY file a dispute in writing with the collection agency. He should state clearly that he never signed a lease, and does not owe the amount in question. By law the collection agency must verify the debt. They won't be able to because there is no lease. That will most likely end the matter.

Again, if this is already in collections it's time critical that your son file the dispute! It will be way easier to KEEP this off his credit report than it will be to remove it later. There are many examples of collections dispute letters on the internet. As part of this letter you should also tell them to limit all future contact to mail correspondence. This will invoke your son's right to prevent them contacting him by phone, etc.

A little tip about mailing the dispute: currently, it's cheaper to send the letter USPS Priority Mail, rather than "registered" or "certified" mail. It gets there faster, and you have delivery confirmation at no extra charge.

[andyz]

Their position currently is that the application binds him to the lease and that he is obligated. This far, I disagree. The application affords options and I haven't seen anything that says "this is it" so to speak.

[RKEnnis]

Yes, the collection agency's position will always be that the person is legally obligated, and that they have done all they must do to verified the debt.

However, by filing a dispute, you force them to provide YOU with the proof in writing. Often they can't do that, so the matter is dropped. I know this from experience - a collections agent telling you they have proof is WAY different than them providing with you real written proof.

If they do provide you with written proof of debt, you can still get an attorney at that time.

At least by filing the dispute, you gain some time. They have 30 days to provide the proof, and can't do anything else with the debt until they have done so.

Personally, even if I weren't positive about my legal grounds I'd still file the dispute. It'll probably make the problem go away. And even if it doesn't you have gained some time and caused no harm.

I know nothing about real estate or apartment law, but plenty about collections agencies...