wedding photography problem

[ndsimm]

I know a lot of you all are not pros but I have an ethical question for pros and those that are not.
I shot a wedding last night and had a great time and the couple was very good looking...
The problem? They booked my 4 hour wedding package and the wedding started at 3. So by 7pm, they hadn't cut the cake yet, so I was nice and stayed until 7:45 while they did a "grand march" (never saw that before) and then cut the cake. When I asked about when they would toss the bouquet and garter, she replied, "oh, we won't do that until 9:30 or 10". I told her I couldn't stay that long without charging my hourly rate at least and she told me that was fine because her step-dad would take those with his digital camera. I KNOW she will not be happy with those shots but is there anything else I could have done to work this out besides turning a 4 hour package into a 7 hour package without charging extra?

[Bill Huber]

I shot weddings a long time ago, I think you only option was to leave. You had given them 45 min. more then the package already.
I am sure you had gone over all this before the wedding and told them just what they were paying for and how long you would be taking shots. They knew what to expect.
You talked to them and told them just what you could do and they did not want that, so you had to leave.
There comes a point when you just have to stand you ground, some people will take advantage of everything they can.

So I think you did the right thing.

[lucian]

I've been in that position more than once. No, not much else you could have done expecpt continue on at no extra charge or leave as scheduled.

In my experience it's difficult to get really good shots of the bouquet and garter. A lot of times you have to rely on a set up shot.

But they are only two shots for the album and seldom do you get reprints of these shots. So from a profit stand point these are not always that important.

Stretching a 4 hour package into 7 or 8 hours is asking a lot of the photographer, especially if you're not willing to pay for their time.

In my younger days I would hang around - the only picture you can't sell is the one you didn't take. But hanging around seldom offered the opportunity to to get anything sellable. People started to filter out, some got "happier on spirits", and the happier they are the less they buy.

So unless you think those shots were very important to you to have for the album, departing gracefully was probably in your best interests.

[MyKey]

Let me ask first before I answer: Did you have a signed contract between you and the client on the 4 hour package?

[ShutteredEye]

Originally Posted by ndsimm

I know a lot of you all are not pros but I have an ethical question for pros and those that are not.
I shot a wedding last night and had a great time and the couple was very good looking...
The problem? They booked my 4 hour wedding package and the wedding started at 3. So by 7pm, they hadn't cut the cake yet, so I was nice and stayed until 7:45 while they did a "grand march" (never saw that before) and then cut the cake. When I asked about when they would toss the bouquet and garter, she replied, "oh, we won't do that until 9:30 or 10". I told her I couldn't stay that long without charging my hourly rate at least and she told me that was fine because her step-dad would take those with his digital camera. I KNOW she will not be happy with those shots but is there anything else I could have done to work this out besides turning a 4 hour package into a 7 hour package without charging extra?

You must be more ethical than me, because I don't see the ethical dilemma. You get what you pay for. Simple as that. My experience in PLANNING a wedding right now, if we got everything we wanted, we would have a $25,000 wedding. Waaaaay out of our budget. So, we make do with the best we can for the money. Believe me, the bride and groom will be happy to have the shots you did shoot.

But you did scare me with the "good looking couple" comment at the start of your post. I was afraid of where that was going.....now THAT would have been an ethical dilemma..... :shock: :shock: :lol:

[Lissa]

Having never shot a wedding, but attended a few, all I can say is Day-um! That was a long wedding!

[ndsimm]

Originally Posted by MyKey

Let me ask first before I answer: Did you have a signed contract between you and the client on the 4 hour package?

most definitely! The contracted time was from 3-7. I even got there an hour early and wound up shooting then. at our first meeting and at the final meeting I went over everything I usually do and cover and ask them about any special considerations and none were mentioned.....

[MyKey]

The contracted time was from 3-7.

Then I see no problem in charging them for the extra time since it was in your contract, even if you did not talk to them during the event. Normally when I photograph a wedding which is on a time limit (only our first package) at the end of the time I go up and ask the clients if they would like us to stay longer (we have also already talked about the hourly rate during our pre-wedding meetings) if they say yes we will stay on an hour to hour basis, if they say no we are out the door. While a wedding is a wonderful day for the friends and family involved it is a professional business for you. I do not know of many (if any) other business where a service is provided without payment. I would not have a problem asking for the extra money for the time you spent photographing their special day or leaving at the end of the time stated on the contract. The Bride and Groom might be upset but they understand also it is a business.


.

But you did scare me with the "good looking couple" comment at the start of your post. I was afraid of where that was going.....now THAT would have been an ethical dilemma.....

Your braver than me, I only thought that was where is was going :D you said it!

[labguy]

I shot many weddings over the years and never had one last 4 hours, even though they book for 4. We also had a 6hr package and an unlimited hour coverage (both at a higher price of course) just couldn't go to the couple and saying times up, seemed like i was a clock watcher. we always gave an extra hour if needed.

the wedding album is a picture book and you need an ending. if the garter and cake was that long past the hours, we staged it, along with them leaving. can't tell its staged if posed right and it completes the story.

they appreciated the free time and generated better referrals. (everybody wants something for nothing)

[Noe]

As long there is a contract I see no problem. However, when they tell their friends about the photographer, they are not going to say that they only got the hour package, they might just state that you left before the other stuff. This has happened to me before.

Noe

[wrogers]

This was my job as an wedding photographer assistant. Stay until the end while my brother goes on to the next wedding. If it was just a "punch and peanut" wedding then it would be over quickly, but if alcohol was involved...it was a long night.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Ok, here's my take on it...

I would have stayed (and have).

Unless you had a prior engagement where you had to leave at the agreed upon time (which supercedes everything from this point on) why wouldn't you have stayed?

1. Couple is very good looking. To me the only reason to make this statement is because the shots will enhance your portfolio and get you more business. Don't know if the boquet shot or dancing would have made a difference but I would have taken the chance.

2. You stay, they love you, recommendations galore. You leave, they are dissapointed (even though they did it to themselves), it reflects badly on you (perceptually).

3. You could have charged a different rate for pictures taken "after hours" and explained this to them, that these were taken on your own time and therefore commands a different pricing structure.

4. It's easier to package up a complete day than just a 4 hour period.

5. Gage future business from this couple. Are they young? Were the bridesmaids already married? Are they going to start a family? Will they want to use you in the future (Xmas, baby, etc...). This should have an effect on your decision.

6. You got a picture of a "Grand March". You wouldn't have one if you'd left on schedule. Who knows what else you missed by leaving early (if you have 300 weddings under your belt, this probably doesn't matter but if you have 3...)

7. Was it the bride/groom paying for the wedding or was it a family member? If family member, you may have wanted to take them aside during a lull and pose the question to them. More likely than not, they probably would have retained you for those events to come.

8. Contractually, it's the right thing to do (leave on schedule). You did what you believed was right. I wouldn't second-guess yourself on it.

I certainly don't blame or fault you for leaving when you did. I admire you for sticking to your guns. Everyone's situation is different and every situation is different. You have to do what's best for you and your business.

Last question and then I'll jump down off the soapbox....

Did you lose money by not staying?


_/oe

PS. I should mention that there are times I did not stay beyond the agreed upon time (I had my reasons).

[ndsimm]

Originally Posted by Joe_Lorenzini

Last question and then I'll jump down off the soapbox....

Did you lose money by not staying?


_/oe

PS. I should mention that there are times I did not stay beyond the agreed upon time (I had my reasons).

good points Joe and there really wasn't problem with me staying and I have stayed over before as well, my problem was mainly
1. I always go over the scheduled events beforehand and they told me everything would be done early on
2. I offered them an all day package but they thought it was too much (another $300 extra)

[wrogers]

Joe, You are correct on each point, but sometimes it is harder to do in a small town where you know everybody and they know you. By the way, Joe, what is that outfit you are wearing in your avatar? If you don't get arrested, then nobody will :lol:

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Hey Nathan,

The two points you make are solid. Considering you probably did the right thing. If you've done enough weddings than you know your first point is mute because weddings NEVER stick to the schedule (unless there is a coordinator present, then it is more likely to).

Your second point is the one where your strength lies and good for you in sticking to your guns.

Without being antagonistic though, I would suggest that consider why they didn't go for the extra $300. The advantages of an all-day shoot compared to a 4 hour stint is extreme. Is there something you need to adjust so that future clients understand the advantages or was it just a simple case of economics for this particular couple?

Also, I want to make it clear that I truely respect your decision and am not trying to attack you personally or make you feel remorse for what occured.

The wedding biz is tough stuff.

_/oe