Are you a member of a professional organization?

[Tom]

I have no doubt that he's giving.. you generally don't go speaking unless its because you want to give back. :)

Sure you do. It raises your profile and generates buzz about your self. Just another marketing technique. I've never heard about the people you all are talking about, so I don't know if that is what is up with them.

[brad]

Well I did say "generally" .. as in "unless you're cynical like Tom" LOL

[BenE]

Originally Posted by brad

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I'm not bashing Gary on this subject... he's one of dozens of speakers I've heard make the same complaint.. "You're killing the industry." I believe were his exact words when talking "to" those that don't charge enough... but he is by far not the only one who says it.
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What I find interesting is that some speakers seem to think they know what other photographers should be charging. There are many factors when it comes to pricing, such as location, the "mentality" of the prospective customers, the economy of the area, to mention a few.

So when I hear a speaker comment about how others are not charging enough, I wonder how in their infinite wisdom can they make a blanket statement without knowing facts.

So, Brad, I understand how these comments by speakers might come across, and I feel the same as you :)

In my opinion, the best speakers are those who encourage, and who give ideas about how to improve my work. If I do that, pricing will probably be the least of my worries.

But, when they start jumping on people for not charging enough, I just think... "What business is it of yours (the speaker) to tell anyone they should be charging more. I also wonder how much value can be paced on their comments when they do not even sell the same puny sizes that my customers buy .

They only sell the small 20x24s and larger anyway, right.

[brad]

Originally Posted by BenE

In my opinion, the best speakers are those who encourage, and who give ideas about how to improve my work. If I do that, pricing will probably be the least of my worries.

But, when they start jumping on people for not charging enough, I just think... "What business is it of yours (the speaker) to tell anyone they should be charging more. I also wonder how much value can be paced on their comments when they do not even sell the same puny sizes that my customers buy .

They only sell the small 20x24s and larger anyway, right.

Fuzzy Duenkel had an article in Professional Photographer Magazine that basically said just that.. shoot what you're passionate about and charge what will bring you the lifestyle you want. If you want to be an $80K a year studio with little overhead and no employees, great... if you want a million dollar studio, great... charge what you have to in order to achieve those things.

And these people that get up there and say "We don't sell anything smaller than a 20x24" crack me up... they also seem to be the ones that say "Oh, we don't do any retouching on our photos," yet you look at one of them blown up to that 30x40 size and there isn't a pore on their face. Yea, you don't do any retouching - you let some intern running Portraiture do it for you.

[Ernst-Ulrich Schafer]

Ok guys, Again I hear what your saying, but at the same time shouldn't we educate photographers what it takes to stay in business? I've given workshops myself and hope to do more in the future. One of the things I will always bring up is pricing and are you really considering all of your costs when doing business. Even PPA states that the average studio in America should be charging $40 for the lst 8X10 a studio sells. So if I have someone visits me at my studio for some help and they tell me their 8X10 are for ONLY $8 I'm going to rag on them big time.

[brad]

Absolutely.. as I said, when they price that low, they are hurting themselves. And in a one-on-one situation, I will tell them that... hell, I'll even tell a group that if they aren't keeping everything in mind when they set their pricing, they may be making a mistake.

I often quote something I read a long time ago that was discussing pricing in the software industry: If no one is complaining about your price, its probably too low.

I was just saying that I don't agree with the speakers that say its hurting the entire industry because some person in Indiana is selling their 8x10s for $4.

The people who are selling that cheap have always been there and always will be. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it as a whole (one on one, you can try to educate them)... and worrying about it draws attention away from where it should be - on your own business.

[BenE]

What was the original question? Oh,,, I remember. sorry OP, I was guilty also.

[JohnT]

There's some great discussion happening here. I'm just sitting back and soaking it in. :)

[Ernst-Ulrich Schafer]

heheh Ben, The original questions was are you a member of a professional organization. ;-)

I would strongly urge anyone who considers themseleves to be a professional photographer or wanting to become one to join that orgainzation and then if your
wanting to test what PPA or WPPI is all about, please do so.