The 'Artistic Value' Police

[Coelus]

Police Chief Jim McDonnell has confirmed that detaining photographers for taking pictures "with no apparent esthetic value" is within Long Beach Police Department policy.

[z-monster]

Police Officers are art critics now?

[BenE]

Originally Posted by z-monster

Police Officers are art critics now?

That is not exactly what the SAR is about; and while I have always been sympathetic about what police have to deal with, I am now to the point that I believe some police chiefs and others are stepping way beyond what they should be doing.

I can agree that people who take photos of sensitive areas, such as some refineries might need to be asked a few questions, but this is ridiculous. As written, any police officer can approach, and possibly detain anyone they "feel" might be taking photos of anything that might remotely have anything to do with national security. A photographer could be detained if he was taking a photo of an oil drum that might be sitting on a pier. (Just an example, but not that farfetched.)

Or.. Someone might decide to take a photograph of an oil rig, or ship which is not too far offshore. There are many scenarios what would apply.

Since this was adopted in 2008, my hope would be that a test case can be made, and will be made before it gets so out of hand that photographers are questioned for just sitting on a bench looking at a sunset.

By the way, as written, any person can be questioned and possibly detained for even looking at a refinery with a pair of binoculars, so it is more than just photographers who can find themselves in "trouble".

Very strange.

[wclavey]

From the story: 'McDonnell says that while there is no police training specific to determining whether a photographer's subject has "apparent esthetic value," officers make such judgments "based on their overall training and experience" and will generally approach photographers not engaging in "regular tourist behavior." '

When my wife & I "rank" photographic styles, tourist pictures fall somewhere between postcards & place-mats... I would hate to think that they are the only thing that have "apparent esthetic [sic] value" although it seems that anything else is questionable. Perhaps this is a CA program to raise attendance at local colleges and universities that confer art degrees... and all patrol officers will be required to attend.

[JohnT]

I just wish they'd learn to spell "aesthetic."

[Epic Weddings]

I guess what it comes down to is that if they ask you questions, flip through your photos, and see nothing but cameras, or some of the major environmental problems or anything that would infringe on the rights of the local real estate owner (the real catalyst for legislation like this), they'll cause you legal problems. Certain companies just want their reputation to remain in tact and don't want some peta/republican trying to take down the landowners that pay all the taxes in their wonderful beach community.

Eitherway, it's just a major lawsuit waiting to happen. As it is, most professional photographers want to play within the rules...because if you're good you can produce quality work in any situation. That being said, I only try to break the law in small doses so I can continue to have my freedom to keep shooting. Not worth fighting that Chief of Police--I'd try to find another place to do my work.

[Dobick]

Not sure under what circumstances I would ever feel comfortable showing my images to authorities.

I think I would want a lawyer with me before I was interrogated in that manner.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I just don't see how this "review" of images and judgement of their artistic merits could stand in the face of the 4th amendment.

[venchka]

I'm in trouble. Based on recent feedback, my work has no aesthetic (did I spell it correctly?) value. I should avoid Long Beach, CA. Long Beach, MS, on the other hand, understands me.

Oh, by the way, how the heck are these experienced officers going to review the photos in my film holders? Huh?

[kenw]

The attached earned a visit from the Texas City police as I took this and dozens almost just like it. You see, it was on the dike and looked from the street as if the camera (on tripod) was pointed directly at refinery row. In 2005 things were still a bit on edge so they stopped to see what was going on. Once they understood we weren’t badniks (most cops are pretty sharp, it only took them a few seconds), we talked about various things for almost an hour while I continued to click away every so often as the colors changed. I told them I appreciated what they were doing, and that I understood why they had to ask. They were incredibly polite and I did my best to be the same altho I do admit I was pretty nervous. On numerous trips to a similar spot in the coming years, I got a wave each time they passed without stopping. I would like to think that I made a friend that evening.

Just because a PD has a policy that ALLOWS something doesn’t mean the guy on the street will ever use it. It just means that he is within policy if he ever needs to. It requires trust on everyone’s part, a rare commodity these days. I can only do my part. It ain’t a perfect system, but it sure beats a lot of the options out there.

[wclavey]

Originally Posted by venchka

Oh, by the way, how the heck are these experienced officers going to review the photos in my film holders? Huh?

LOL! A couple of years ago, when I-10 was being rebuilt, I stopped one Sunday afternoon out by Rt 99 to photograph the gravel crushing equipment contributing to our national strategic gravel reserves. I was using the Olympus OM-1 and the friendly officer who inserted himself and his car in between me and the equipment (I was standing in the grassy median by the way) wanted to know why he could not see my images.

[Tom]

I hope they make HDR a jailable offense.

[ggeen]

Originally Posted by Dobick

Not sure under what circumstances I would ever feel comfortable showing my images to authorities.

A warrant or supena. When my camera/memory becomes evidence. Anything short of that that officer must be really nice to me.

[kenw]

Originally Posted by Dobick

Not sure under what circumstances I would ever feel comfortable showing my images to authorities.

being comfortable with it isn't part of the question.

[Epic Weddings]

Originally Posted by kenw

The attached earned a visit from the Texas City police as I took this and dozens almost just like it. You see, it was on the dike and looked from the street as if the camera (on tripod) was pointed directly at refinery row. In 2005 things were still a bit on edge so they stopped to see what was going on. Once they understood we weren’t badniks (most cops are pretty sharp, it only took them a few seconds), we talked about various things for almost an hour while I continued to click away every so often as the colors changed. I told them I appreciated what they were doing, and that I understood why they had to ask. They were incredibly polite and I did my best to be the same altho I do admit I was pretty nervous. On numerous trips to a similar spot in the coming years, I got a wave each time they passed without stopping. I would like to think that I made a friend that evening.

Just because a PD has a policy that ALLOWS something doesn’t mean the guy on the street will ever use it. It just means that he is within policy if he ever needs to. It requires trust on everyone’s part, a rare commodity these days. I can only do my part. It ain’t a perfect system, but it sure beats a lot of the options out there.

Great Post!

I think the key to your encounter is that if you're really out to do some artwork you can easily show proof with your camera to even a lay person. I mean, if an officer looks at your work, decides your not an artist and arrests you, it's time to put away the camera.

In my early days I was out shooting in downtown Dallas one weekend working on different angles, architecture when I got stopped by a couple of officers. They just wanted to know why I was taking pictures of the Federal Reserve and their security cameras. I'll be dammed if a few of my shots had cameras in them. After showing them my pictures and explaining myself they let me go. I guess I believe that attitude gets you farther than the perceived legality of the situation, especially in something as grey as "photography enforcement."