Ethics question...

[Saltwater Servitude]

Let me preface this by saying this is research for my novel and nothing more.

Okay, what are the legal and ethical limits of this photography scenario?

A photographer is staying at a resort (Broadmoor in Colorado Springs) where the Secretary of State (a woman) occasionally stays as well despite the SOS having a home in the outskirts of the town. The photographer is there on a free lance gig, hoping to sell some images from the speech the SOS is giving the next afternoon. Paparazzi style shooting.

He (the photographer) gets a call from the reservations desk around 8 pm that the SOS's Secret Service staff have just called and let the front desk know that she's on the way. Also, the photographer is told that the SOS's personal assistant is staying across the lake on the ground floor. He can't get anywhere near the SOS's room in the main tower of the hotel, so he's picked a room where he can watch the SOS's assistants room from his own.

At soon as the SOS arrives, she goes to the assistant's room rather than her own. The curtains are open, lights are on. After a few drinks, the SOS and her female assistant end up kissing and more. The photographer catches this from his vantage point outside once he had seen the SOS enter her room. Remember, he's also staying as a guest on the premises.

Are those photos an invasion of privacy?

If the photographer offers to sell the digital negatives and all rights to them to the SOS at less than expected market price, does that constitute blackmail?

I figure catching a public figure having an affair, same sex or not, is worth at least $50K or more to the right (or wrong) news outlet.

So what are your thoughts? Invasion of privacy or not? Blackmail or not? Fair market price for a set of photos of that nature?

[Tom]

I don't know about all the blackmail stuff, but I do know that the Sec State doesn't use Secret Service. They use DeptState Diplomatic Security Service does the protection for Hillary, even though she is entitled to SS agents from Bill's tenure as president.


If you can be seen through an open window from a public place, I don't know how much right or privacy you can expect.

[ggeen]

Is there educational potential? probably not.
Is there news potential? Most definitely.

They were on the ground floor and did not close the curtains. So expectation of privacy is out the window -- so to speak.

There was a case not too long ago. I think it was Washington, DC. Guy checks into the hotel room then starts dancing around the room naked -- "forgetting" to the close the curtains. He draws a crowd. He, his lawyer, claimed he had an expectation of privacy the judge disagreed. Fined him for public indecency. I will see if I can did up the news story.

[Patti Edens]

One thing I noticed in your scenario is that the reservations desk is giving away a lot of info for which they could get into some trouble. I don't know the law regarding this, but hotels these days will not tell you who is staying in which room. They won't even say your room number out loud if anyone else is standing near you. They just point to it where it is written down in the folder they hand you.

Again, I don't know if it is a CYA thing they do or if there is actually a law against giving out that info.

You might want to check with someone familiar with hotel management. U of H still has a hotel management college I think.

[Tom]

One thing I noticed in your scenario is that the reservations desk is giving away a lot of info for which they could get into some trouble. I don't know the law regarding this, but hotels these days will not tell you who is staying in which room. They won't even say your room number out loud if anyone else is standing near you. They just point to it where it is written down in the folder they hand you.

If you sold the pics through a news source, you could be protected and therefor protect the front desk idiot through the shield law.

[duronboy]

The photographer is either the handsome, gentle(but thorough) lover of the cute blond at the reception desk, or he's paying a few thousand to the crusty, about-to-retire prunette. So, we can just rest assured that either way, whatever information the photographer seeks, the photographer gets.

[Flores]

Extortion needs coercion. It wouldn't be blackmail unless you have a consequence to not paying. So, walking the FINE line of the law, offering exclusive rights to the photos is not blackmail, unless you suggest that you would sell them to someone else if they don't pay, regardless of the price. If you were to explain your 'selling them' at less than 'market value', that implies you will end up selling them to someone else if they don't pay, and now you've crossed over into extortion.


Most hotels are private property, which means guests are entitled to some privacy from the hotel. Other guests are a grey area, unless the hotel has you sign a confidentiality agreement as part of your 'fine print' when you sign into the hotel.

does the 1st floor room face a public area, or a hotel only area. If public, I think you could make the case there is no expectation of privacy, still kinda grey if it's facing the private property.

finally, in this day and age, it's almost not news that
1) high government official is gay
2) high government official is cheating on spouse
3) high government official is playing with 'the help'

I would be worried about competition on 'the story' from the aide in question. (does she have some DNA on a set of undies somewhere?)

[Dobick]

as far as ethics is concerned -- sounds very unethical.

Legality is another question entirely.

[tc95]

Jeff...I guess your question has two alternate ones to pose:

Is the photographer ethical and just or is the photographer out to make a quick buck at anyone's expense....??

Ethical Approach:
I pose a different scenario...The photog, approaches the Secretary of State later, politely lets her see the images that he took, and explains how careless that she was. Also, explains this is the type of story that could make his career, and potentially harm her's...Pop's the CF/SD card out of the camera, and hands it to the Secretary of State, and asks if the photog could be her exclusive photog, for said number of years. To help him make his career, but not harm her's in any way...


UnEthical Approach:
Photog, develops the photo's...and hands them to the Secretary of State, with a bill for $$,$$$.$$ for services rendered during her stay at the hotel, and sign over rights to the Secretary of State to use the photos for everything but advertising...

Two plausible realities.....Depends on the morals and ethics of the Photog....

[Flores]

both of those are right on the line of extortion. in both cases you are demanding something and implying if you don't get it, there are consequences.



from a journalistic stand point, the only ethical thing to do is publish the story, as it is about a public figure, who have to suffer less expectations of privacy than average citizens.

it's nothing personal, just professional. it would also be considered ethical to tell the subject of your article you intend to publish.

which brings us to the next ethical hurdle: do you take the bribe not to run the story? legally, you are now in the clear, because you did not threaten to release the story 'unless' you got something. not running the story in exchange for some consideration would harm your integrity as a reporter.

[crazeazn]

have a tryst with the two radies.

[Saltwater Servitude]

Originally Posted by tc95

..Pop's the CF/SD card out of the camera, and hands it to the Secretary of State, and asks if the photog could be her exclusive photog, for said number of years. To help him make his career, but not harm her's in any way...

That's kind of scary since it's a twist I give to my SOS when confronted by the photographer with a single printed copy of one of the photos. He asks for X amount of dollars for the set, and she offers him $15K more to be her personal photographer for the next year.

Thing of it is though I made her in the model of Willie Stark from All the King's Men, but she leans more towards a cut throat prototypical Washington politico type. She's got a week in Jakarta coming up for a peace and development conference of central Asian nations, and she's going to send him out on several assignments into the countryside without security fully expecting him to not return. Of course he comes back twice with no issue, and so I throw a little plot twist in there.

I'm probably going to be crossing over the line into extortion since he's going to give her right of first refusal to buy within the next week or so. If she declines to buy them at less than market price, he's going to explore other options and give her the right to match price on any deal he has in principle with another news agency.

Originally Posted by Tom

I don't know about all the blackmail stuff, but I do know that the Sec State doesn't use Secret Service. They use DeptState Diplomatic Security Service does the protection for Hillary, even though she is entitled to SS agents from Bill's tenure as president.

If you can be seen through an open window from a public place, I don't know how much right or privacy you can expect.

I spend 3 days researching all I can find about nuclear weapons, development, history, physics, stockpiles, processing, yield, after effects, etc... And I miss something has simple as not having the SOS protected by the right security service. I guess that's why you get beta readers.

Flores, since she's the front runner for the nomination of her party for the Presidency in 2020 (2018 is when the novel occurs), having a lesbian affair would end that for her.

Patti, the front desk clerk is given a few hundred bucks by the photographer to be alerted when the SOS checks in. All the clerk has to do is make a phone call to the photographer's room and say something as innocuous as "The fax you inquired about has arrived at the desk, I'll send it to your room 143." Unless another employee is standing right there at 9 pm on a Thursday night, no one is ever gonna find out what happened.

Thanks for all the responses folks! It's greatly appreciated.

[MHampton]

WAIT A MINUTE!! The first time I read this, I don't remember talk about this being research for a novel. Did you edit the post and add that first line? :)

Very sneaky! :)

Sounds like a page turner for sure though!

<still laughing>

[tc95]

Originally Posted by MHampton

WAIT A MINUTE!! The first time I read this, I don't remember talk about this being research for a novel. Did you edit the post and add that first line? :)

Very sneaky! :)

Sounds like a page turner for sure though!

<still laughing>

That is why my answer was such...!!! I personally would never take those pictures...even-if I could make big $$$,$$$.00 on them...I have four hispanic women that would have my hide if they ever saw them...no matter what I was paid...

The headline would look like this.... Houston Amature Photographer Killed with his own camera equipment, found dead in his house, no arrest will be made due to the fact he had it comming to him...!!!!

This would be the order:

Mother - Puerto Rican - Beat him with a Sigma SD14
Mother-in-law - Mexican - Beat him with a Nikon D2x
Wife - Mexican - Beat him with a Mamiya ADF
Daughter - Mexican & Puerto Rican - Beat him with a Leica R4

Let us know what the name of the book will be...

[texxter]

What seems unethical (or at least shows some lack of judgment) here is that a married woman is having an affair with someone who works for her - we don't know if the assistant is being coerced or not, but even if it's consensual, the position of authority of the SOS, not to mention her being a public figure, makes it indefensible to be having a relationship with the assistant.

Papparazis dont have ethics, so no comment on what the photographer is doing, but you can figure that out pretty quickly too.