Has the site change or is it just me

[Tom]

Originally Posted by iCe

Exactly... so far the death penalty has not been approved for posting an image for the purpose of getting a critique so there's not much to lose

I'd recommend it in most cases of HDR.

[KJ Smith]

To all those bitching about the lack of critique:

When was the last time you offered critique?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by KJ Smith

To all those bitching about the lack of critique:

When was the last time you offered critique?

I think it is understandable that a lot new photographers that are just getting their bearings don't feel competent or qualified enough to give a critique. Everyone has a fear of looking stupid in public. I certainly wasn't giving critiques in public back then.


But the backlash from many photographers is why I and others have stopped giving real critiques. I've gotten filthy, vulgar, hateful emails threatening me and my livelihood because they hated and disagreed with my critique. I sent the thread to other photographers to see if I was too harsh and they said I was spot on. I'm not interested in dealing with ugly people that think their snapshots are straw spun into gold.

The best critique I ever received on here was from a member here in Katy that sent me the critique in a PM. He said some people don't really want to learn and aren't open to actually hearing a critique. That was on my first e-session and it changed how I shoot. And it started a good photog relationship for both of us.

I don't want to take time away from my business and family for an entitled brat. I'd rather give legit feedback to people that can handle it, are ready for it, are trying to learn and are interested in being great. If I don't know those things about you, I'm not going to bother. Been burned too many times trying to be nice to people as others were nice to me as I was beginning.

[KJ Smith]

I know what you are saying Tom.

But anybody can say why they do, or do not like a photo.

I just think if you don't offer help, don't expect help.



I do the same as you. What I offer and/or get comes from a small group of friends through email.

[iCe]

Originally Posted by Tom

I'd recommend it in most cases of HDR.

I have proven that HDR is easy to master. Every HDR image that I have ever attempted has been masterfully f'd up

Every now and then someone does a nice job on an HDR image... not I.

[KJ Smith]

To the OP,

Has the site changed? NO.

The site never changes, (except for its name) the users do.

People come and go. There is a ebb and flow.

We seem to be in a "low tide" right now.

If you want it to get better, participate more.

Bring some "interest" to the site!!!

[studiocygnet]

I don't think the site is changing as much as just the times are changing. I used to spend much more time here than I do now. My normal day is to get up, make a cup of tea and check emails first. Then it's over to facebook, where my siblings and relatives, band members, and cycling buddies will have posted. I purposely avoid any photography related posting on facebook, as I think it ends up cheapening your photographs and making them seem no more important than all the iphone posts. So after facebook I come here, check the Open Talk section, the film section, and sometimes the Austin section, and by that time I'm past needing to do some work. I haven't been to the section where people post their photos in months. Usually I only end up seeing photos posted as a relevant addition to a thread in Open Talk. I'm sure many other folks are in a similar mode. Things like facebook and twitter have now taken up time that would have been used here before.

[Steve Balderrama]

Originally Posted by iCe

I have proven that HDR is easy to master. Every HDR image that I have ever attempted has been masterfully f'd up

Every now and then someone does a nice job on an HDR image... not I.

Most people end up turning HDR into "No Dynamic Range", everything is just "loud" like a bad Thomas Kinkade painting. As far as I'm concerned, if I can tell it was HDR, it's bad HDR. And that is my critique of HDR. :)

Anyway, in regards to the OP, in the forums I frequent, People and Human Form, it seems difficult to get much response unless you picture involves someone's kids. The Showcase galleries seem to be just barely useful in getting actual comments of any kind, and I always greatly appreciate the ones who do. I always tag CC, because I always want comments.

I, like many, don't look through all the postings, but it's kindof annoying when you see that you have like 100 views and 0 comments. I'm guilty of rarely commenting on NC threads because it seems kind of pointless to just say, "nice job" (especially when its not ;) ), but I think I will change my approach on NC's. I'm going to start considering them as "light helpful comments" and see how that goes. If someone posts photo's on a public message board, they have to expect at least some comments to hopefully help them improve.

[donlfaulkner]

Originally Posted by Steve Balderrama

Most people end up turning HDR into "No Dynamic Range", everything is just "loud" like a bad Thomas Kinkade painting. As far as I'm concerned, if I can tell it was HDR, it's bad HDR. And that is my critique of HDR. :)

Anyway, in regards to the OP, in the forums I frequent, People and Human Form, it seems difficult to get much response unless you picture involves someone's kids. The Showcase galleries seem to be just barely useful in getting actual comments of any kind, and I always greatly appreciate the ones who do. I always tag CC, because I always want comments.

I, like many, don't look through all the postings, but it's kindof annoying when you see that you have like 100 views and 0 comments. I'm guilty of rarely commenting on NC threads because it seems kind of pointless to just say, "nice job" (especially when its not ;) ), but I think I will change my approach on NC's. I'm going to start considering them as "light helpful comments" and see how that goes. If someone posts photo's on a public message board, they have to expect at least some comments to hopefully help them improve.

This is the reason I have quit posting on this forum. What's the use wasting time posting for critique when no one even comments?

[rab3rd]

Well those that do take the time to comment often get flamed for doing so, or no appreciation for taking the time. Thats the reason I stopped CCing

[wclavey]

This question, or something very similar, comes up frequently and each time it does, my perspective on it changes a bit - - sometimes site functions change; my "knowledge" of some of the people change, etc.

As one person said above, I'm not keen on the "I like it" posts on NC:s but I see the "Like it" button as a good surrogate - - I can click that if I like a picture as well as if I like a comment or a post. And like someone else said, even on NC:s, I give gentle comments to reinforce what I like.

But it does seem that, like Kevin said, the site participation ebbs & flows, and I think we are in an ebb now. There are a few active threads that grow over time, but many of them are slow right now. And I think Kevin is right, too, that people have to be willing to post and comment to improve the traffic. I know I have posted my fair share of duds - - both pictures and comments - - but that's because I think that you have to give to get.

But at the same time, I think that we have seen some examples over the past 6 months of poor reactions to comments, as well as some poorly constructed comments, and I think that both of these may discourage people who may be on the fence about participating. I know, if nothing else, it makes me gun shy about responding to some people. On the other hand, I feel like I have responded to some relatively new people (for me, that means here less than a year or so...) and been really pleased about the conversations that have come from that exchange.

[BenE]

From what I can understand the "rules" are something like this:
Post an image and when someone says they like it, the OP is suppose to say, "Thank You", and smile.

If someone says something negative about it, the OP is suppose to say, "Thank You", and smile.

I have seen posts where people tell the OP to stop trying to explain something, and just say "Thank you". In my opinion, this leaves little room for discussing the pros and cons of that image, and not much is learned except what a particular person likes or dislikes.

Perhaps my old association judging days have given me a "warped" mentality when it comes to discussing this.

When a print was judged, every judge could talk about it, and if one didn't like something specific, that could be discussed. That way the maker of the image at least got to hear some discussion, other than, "I like it", or "I don't like it".

Naturally the maker could not stand up and discuss it with the judges, and I am not saying the images posted on this forum are any type of competition.

What I am saying is this. What is so terrible about a person asking another, who has an opposing view, about their thought process? Why can't a person who places an image on for a critique ask a person who replies why they do not like a certain aspect of it, and for Pete's sake, why can't a person who posts an image explain their own reasons for doing an image a certain way.

That is what learning is about, or so I thought.

[wclavey]

BenE, I think you point about it being a 2-way exchange makes a lot of sense, and I think that an OP is much more likely to get commentary that is of value by opening that conversation when the original post is made.

I think that just posting some pictures with "I just returned for [XXXX] here are 3 shots SOOC..." actually wastes a lot of cycles in the process because the first comments back are most likely going to be the obvious ones "... I think that the FOV is too wide for the subject - - it is too small" or things like that, to which the OP replies "Well, I wasn't willing to climb over the barbed wire fence... and I don't have a longer lens," and then others say, "You just aren't willing to accept the criticism..." and the fun begins.

The process would have been more fruitful to both parties if the OP had said, "Here is a shot of [XXXX]. I know that when I print the real image I will need to crop it down to increase the focus on the subject, I was stuck outside of a barbed wire fence for this shot, but I'd like to get some input on the [contrast, white balance, B&W vs color, whatever]." Then I think the participants can have a meaningful exchange, and it shows that the OP is invested in the picture, acknowledging where it might have problems and looking for specific input.

BTW, I cannot say that I follow my own advice here... but I tend not to distinguish between pictures where I want critical comments and ones where I don't... my signature says I will take all comments, and I do - - in the thread or any way you want to send it - - and I will engage you in a conversation. I often get email responses to pictures I post on the forum.

[KJ Smith]

Originally Posted by BenE

From what I can understand the "rules" are something like this:
Post an image and when someone says they like it, the OP is suppose to say, "Thank You", and smile.

If someone says something negative about it, the OP is suppose to say, "Thank You", and smile.

So far so good. If someone spends their time to comment, whether you like/agree with the comment or not, Thank them.

It is rude not to. Just the way a lot of us were raised.

Or, you could try a "Well bless your heart".......

Originally Posted by BenE

What I am saying is this. What is so terrible about a person asking another, who has an opposing view, about their thought process? Why can't a person who places an image on for a critique ask a person who replies why they do not like a certain aspect of it, and for Pete's sake, why can't a person who posts an image explain their own reasons for doing an image a certain way.

That is what learning is about, or so I thought.

There is nothing wrong with that.

But the OP needs to be careful in how they word the response.

Sometimes this can come off as dismissive, or worse insulting.

I have had people reply " Thats the way I wanted it".

Not very productive, does not encourage discussion.


As far as explaining an image, if you have to, the image is not successful.

[iCe]

Originally Posted by rab3rd

Well those that do take the time to comment often get flamed for doing so, or no appreciation for taking the time. Thats the reason I stopped CCing

I CANNOT believe that you just commented on commenting