The hard way isn't the way?

[contributor_M]

So I finally got a chance to watch this.

What do you guys think?

The Grid: Episode 40 | The Grid


Basically, Scott Kelby and Co are arguing against learning and/or doing things the manual way and opting for the quickest way possible. He also says Photo classes that advocate learning in the darkroom is pointless.

Do you agree/disagree?

[Angelo]

They have some very good points.
I don't disagree with anything they said.

I come from the old school and I'm grateful for the basics I learned processing my own film, burning & dodging under an enlarger and seeing the print develop under my own eyes. Would I want to go through that again?
Absolutely not!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Angelo

They have some very good points.
I don't disagree with anything they said.

I come from the old school and I'm grateful for the basics I learned processing my own film, burning & dodging under an enlarger and seeing the print develop under my own eyes. Would I want to go through that again?
Absolutely not!

I am very grateful that I learned to dodge and burn in the dark room. I haven't seen anyone in the digital age put as much of an emphasis on it since and I think great post is an invaluable part of being a great photographer.

I also very strongly believe in shooting manually and knowing how to recognize light and adapt to it immediately, rather than wait on your computer to do it.

[Howard Barlow]

Haven't watched it yet, but I shoot manual. Always have. I agree darkroom is wasted time if you don't shoot film. I processed color and b/w film and printed up to 16x20, color and b/w. There is nothing I did there I can do in PS and computer. Why learn something you can't use in PS. Sure, some concepts are the same, dodge/burn, and such, but you simply cannot use any of it as done in a wet darkroom, while on a computer. Kinda like learning view camera operation to shoot a DSLR.

[Ricks Canvas]

I always shoot manual, unless I just don't have the time... IE Something jumps out of a bush, or is moving to quick for me to set manual to get the shot. Manual just gives you complete control.... and it becomes just as easy as auto modes, if you understand each function. I say take the time to learn each one... then you will be much more adapt at it. Manual shooting will become automatic for you.

[shutterfire]

I just keep putting my CS card in the Developer and nothing happens. Since I cant get it to work in the Darkroom I guess I better try the Lightroom. Just a Simple deduction.

[shutterfire]

I just keep putting my CS card in the Developer and nothing happens. Since I cant get it to work in the Darkroom I guess I better try the Lightroom. Just a Simple deduction.

[stephenpinn]

it has been years since I used a color and b&w darkroom and if anyone here has learned to dodge and burn in color they can tell you why some of these things don't translate well (well maybe if you like the color of mud). The greatest benefit of learning darkroom techniques was learning the vernacular because the processes are totally different.

The net net (IMHO) is your eye and sense of art and composition, that is what makes a good capture and a nicely manipulated image. I cannot name the person that said "Art is Constant, Only the Tools Change" but by gosh is that ever true.

I say that because I struggle with the creative component of photography, it just isn't in me. Technically (exposure, lighting, posing) are easy for me, all memory and observation. Creativity in the process is something I wish I could excel at, I have seen some outstanding images from some pretty unskilled and non photographically trained people, and some pretty banal stuff but great technicals! (usually my own!).

So does classic training help? to some degree but with art there is more to it than antiquated techniques.

My opinion

[bjrichus]

Originally Posted by contributor_M

What do you guys think?

Basically, Scott Kelby and Co are arguing against learning and/or doing things the manual way and opting for the quickest way possible. He also says Photo classes that advocate learning in the darkroom is pointless.

Do you agree/disagree?

I don't see anything WRONG with learning the film and chemical way, but these days most people have gone digital.

To directly answer the question posted about students and spending a year in the darkroom to get a degree, if you have not worked out how to get great results WHATEVER the media involved (digital OR film) after a few months of working, you either are not paying enough attention or your teachers are junk.

I have no problem using digital cameras, CS5 and plugins galore. Great fun too, but... This morning I watched Texas Country Reporter and the feature about photographer Keith Carter (PDNB Gallery, Dallas). He used a Hassy (Ilford 120 FP4 B&W film clearly shown) and his prints (all Silver Halide, darkroom produced) were being hug up to dry were something about 3 feet square taking up 75% of the paper.

So at that part of the art photography world, film and darkroom work is clearly still going strong.

If YOUR photography style is like Keith's or at least something different from digital 10x8 or 5x7 from WallMart or CVS, then you might well need to know all about the darkroom...

To each his own.

[Howard Barlow]

Originally Posted by bjrichus

I don't see anything WRONG with learning the film and chemical way, but these days most people have gone digital.

No, nothing wrong with it, at all, if you have an interest. However, darkroom work has no relationship to digital. There are no techniques you can use from the darkroom, to the computer.

It can be fun, and if you choose to go that route, that is fine. But, it's kinda like learning to drive a stickshift when you are only going to buy an automatic. What good is knowing how to feather the clutch, double clutch, or downshift in the turn, if you are driving automatics?

[Tom]

There are no techniques you can use from the darkroom, to the computer.

I disagree. I use the fundamentals of dodging and burning from developing my Tri-X when editing my files now.

But learning dark room techniques isn't going to be nearly as useful as becoming a master in photoshop and lightroom.

[picman]

Best classes I had was Zone System I and II. Gave me a thorough understanding of exposure and previsualization. However, I don't think I want to zone-out film and paper again.

[Chief]

I for one learned a lot over the years of working in a real dark room. All I have to say is f-stop and shutter speed still rule.

I honestly do not miss the smell of the chemicals..

Gordon

[Howard Barlow]

Gordon, what did you learn in the darkroom that you can use on the computer? F-stop and shutter speed rule, but have no relation to the darkroom, or am I missing your point?

[rab3rd]

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

Gordon, what did you learn in the darkroom that you can use on the computer? F-stop and shutter speed rule, but have no relation to the darkroom, or am I missing your point?

I took his point to be, get it right in the camera...