Arrrghhh! &(#$&(% MISD.

[ShutteredEye]

[rant]So, my daughter, 2nd grade, started bringing home notes saying she wouldn't stop talking in class. Now, knowing my daughter, it's entirely probable she's guilty as charged. So we handled the issue at home, and things got better.

For awhile.

Then she started bringing home notes from school saying she was a behavior problem. Now, knowing my daughter, it's entirely improbable she's guilty as charged. She just doesn't misbehave, completely out of her character to disrupt class like this. See, she's the kind of child that will accept what an adult tells her without sticking up for herself, or explaining what happened. After about 2 months of this, I began to notice a pattern. Every time she got in trouble, her explanation started the same way.

"What happened?"

"Well, 'insert boy's name here' was doing 'x' to me, and when I told him to stop, he told on me and got me in trouble."

Now, a big thing in our house is personal responsibility. My daughter knows what is expected of her, and that's probably more than what's expected of her friends. So it was not without heavy forethought and discussion that I approached her teacher about moving my daughter away from 'insert boy's name here.'

It took a conference with the assistant principal, counselor, and teacher to get it done. And when it finally happened, the problems stopped. Immediately.

But that's not what bothered me.

During the conference, the assistant principal asked me to sign a form that allows my daughter to see the school counselor on an individual basis. (Isn't that what they do any way?!?!)

His mistake was in referring to the form as a "needy child form." Twice.

WTF!?!?!?

So I told him I'd take it under advisement, and went home. I waited 2 weeks, and then composed a letter letting him know what I thought of the issue. All I wanted was for him to apologize, and to be aware of how sensitive children are to labeling.

I got a phone call from him today.

His response?

He flatly denied saying it.

MISD is soooo going to hear about this. [/rant]

[Hogleg 44]

My Son's Vice Principal, when he was in middle school, threw a book at him in anger, as two other kids watched.....And when confronted, flatly denied to my wife and I that he did it!!! We were convinced that he was lying. Not the 3 kids!
We moved my Son to another school!

[photobykim]

WOW! Robert. I know that feeling. we had my step-son seeing the counselor and when I went in for a conference with her she basically told me it was all mine and my husbands fault (without getting into all the details) said my husband was basically a bad father, it was all I could do not to hit that woman. I was so mad. So this year she sends a note home inviting him into her group stuff again, I said oh $(%* NO!!

[Silvernic]

Why would he deny it? What a freakin wuss.
Robert, you sound like an awesome dad, just so you know.

[gpbusa316]

From what I've heard about MISD and dealing with issues, in-class behavior, etc is not good. Seems the so called "adults" who are running things literally don't have a clue. My brother's step-kids (both in high school) have had a few issues (talking in class, being disruptive)... and trying to contact teachers and/or get things resolved in an intelligent manner (sitting down with all involved and having an adult conversation) has left him and his fiance quite perturbed at times.

It seems the school administrators (and I use the term lightly) don't want to be bothered with such things and generally place any/all blame on one student, without hearing, or wanting to hear, all sides of the story. Nothing but a CYA approach on their part.

[laurielblack]

As a certified school counselor, I felt the need to respond...though most school counselors would LOVE to be able to see the kids individually on a regular basis, it really doesn't happen as often as parents probably believe it does. Regular school counselors have so many "other duties as assigned," such as testing and test prep (the dreaded T word), classroom guidance lessons, cafeteria and bus duty, putting out immediate fires (crisis intervention, parent conferences) etc. A lot of the time, school counselors only get to see a select few students on a regular basis, and typically those will first be the special needs students whose ARD (Admission, Review, Dismissal) committees have recommended regular counseling. Other students who come in regularly usually require some sort of parent permission to do so. I think it's not necessarily because the parent needs to approve the counseling, but the school has to have a way to explain why a student is out of the classroom setting on a regular basis. Most counselors have a counselor-to-student ratio of 1:600 these days, so seeing kids regularly is not common.

The assistant principal in your case probably shouldn't have referred to the form as a "needy child form" but that may be what they call the particular referral form they use for counseling and/or social work referrals. We have a referral form in our district too, but we don't call it anything like that. I'm sure that the AP didn't mean anything in particular by the label he chose to use for the form...most administrators aren't as sensitive to labeling as us counselors (and parents), however. I'm sure he uses the term "needy child form" for all kinds of student needs, including counseling referrals. Administrators are trained to try various interventions (such as counseling) when dealing with discipline referrals, even in cases such as the incident with your daughter.

It's a shame the incident escalated to the proportion that this one did; it was a simple classroom management issue that could have been avoided altogether if the teacher had separated the children earlier...but hindsight is 20/20. I hope the school gives you some satisfactory closure to the incident.

[ShutteredEye]

Originally Posted by laurielblack

As a certified school counselor, I felt the need to respond...though most school counselors would LOVE to be able to see the kids individually on a regular basis, it really doesn't happen as often as parents probably believe it does. Regular school counselors have so many "other duties as assigned," such as testing and test prep (the dreaded T word), classroom guidance lessons, cafeteria and bus duty, putting out immediate fires (crisis intervention, parent conferences) etc. A lot of the time, school counselors only get to see a select few students on a regular basis, and typically those will first be the special needs students whose ARD (Admission, Review, Dismissal) committees have recommended regular counseling. Other students who come in regularly usually require some sort of parent permission to do so. I think it's not necessarily because the parent needs to approve the counseling, but the school has to have a way to explain why a student is out of the classroom setting on a regular basis. Most counselors have a counselor-to-student ratio of 1:600 these days, so seeing kids regularly is not common.

The assistant principal in your case probably shouldn't have referred to the form as a "needy child form" but that may be what they call the particular referral form they use for counseling and/or social work referrals. We have a referral form in our district too, but we don't call it anything like that. I'm sure that the AP didn't mean anything in particular by the label he chose to use for the form...most administrators aren't as sensitive to labeling as us counselors (and parents), however. I'm sure he uses the term "needy child form" for all kinds of student needs, including counseling referrals. Administrators are trained to try various interventions (such as counseling) when dealing with discipline referrals, even in cases such as the incident with your daughter.

It's a shame the incident escalated to the proportion that this one did; it was a simple classroom management issue that could have been avoided altogether if the teacher had separated the children earlier...but hindsight is 20/20. I hope the school gives you some satisfactory closure to the incident.

Thanks for your insightful response, it was a very interesting read.

Let me reiterate that all I wanted was an apology and an awareness that what he said might have been heard by my daughter had she attended the conference. And might be heard by some other child.

What I have a major issue with at this point is the fact that he summarily denied referring to the form in that manner, and in so doing, effectively called me a liar. This is a charge that I take very seriously.

At this point how can I justify the lessons I've been teaching my daughter about personal responsibility when the people in authority she spends a large portion of her time around each day will not demonstrate the same characteristics and standards that she's held to?

Let me also add that my daughter has seen a professional counselor outside of school to help her deal with my divorce from her mom. After seeing her for several weeks, this counselor declined to continue treatment, stating that she would be taking our money unecessarily because my daughter is as well adjusted and emotionally stable of a child as she's ever seen. She suggested that we address the issues with the school, because she could find no issue with my daughter.

[brad]

Laurie .. I don't disagree with a thing you said.. but as Robert pointed out, this isn't about the counselor, its about the administration. Oh.. and please choose a different text color.. that pink is hard to read.

Robert: if the behavior problem continues after she's moved, start looking for another possible cause and don't let up until you do. For BOTH of my kids, in class behavior problems ended up being defense mechanisms to hide learning difficulties (dyslexia related).... but that's a WHOLE 'nother rant on my part.

[GonzoBernelli]

When in grade 1 the school suggested my #2 son be evaluated for ADD as he was "acting up" in class. $1500 worth of tests later which also included a multi-part IQ test we went back to the school with the Doctor's report and confronted the school with it.

He did not have any indication/symptoms of ADD or any physical/mental dysfunctions. He "flunked" 2 or 3 parts of the IQ test because he started to get nervous about all the testing he was put through. Even with these failures, his IQ came out over 135 and the Doctors conclusion was that "he got the point of the lesson the first time it was presented and by the time of the third or fourth repititation was bored out of his mind". The Doctor went on to recommend he be put into a "gifted" program, if one existed, or be given "extra" work to make up for the boring nature of the regular class schedule.

The problem with the school system and it management went away, never to reappear.

[AndrewCCM]

Robert - May I ask which school this was? We are visiting schools around right now for my 5yr old. Currently, Charlotte Anderson is the elementary just down the road a bit from us (We're in Fannin Farm south of Hardisty)...who knows on the redistricting lines for another couple of days...) . We also visited Arlington Classics Academy. There is a strong chance of us being moved into the new elementary opening up next year.

Thanks for the info!

[ShutteredEye]

This is DP Morris, we're talking about. Ha, I don't live too far from you--we're at Turner Warnell and Matlock.

[AndrewCCM]

Thanks Robert.. Hopefully, things get better.. MISD is growing faster than they can keep up I fear. We just moved here about 3 yrs ago from SW Fort Worth...At that time school districts were a very important factor on where we finally decided to settle. We still have awhile to continue evaluating our options... Thanks again for sharing your experiences..

[David Whatley]

Andrew,If you want the bestschool for the kids and can arrange it, move to Glen Rose or Aledo. Aledo is closer, but GR is one hell of a school. 72 miles from N.E. Mall

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by David Whatley

Andrew,If you want the bestschool for the kids and can arrange it, move to Glen Rose or Aledo. Aledo is closer, but GR is one hell of a school. 72 miles from N.E. Mall

Yeah.. Actually, Aledo was very much on the table but wife veto'd it. She pretty much wanted to be closer to downtown... I personally liked the idea. One of the considerations is the fact that I work downtown Ft. Worth right now, but could potentially have to travel to Carrollton several days a week and worse yet, fly out of D/FW often. So far that isn't the case, but...had to factor that in...

The nice thing, her parents live about 5 min away over by Lake Arlington, so they help a lot. My parents are in Colleyville area...so being centrally located helps. It's a fine line between "good" schools and then ones that are overridden with social standing, athletics, etc.. We'll test the waters and make adjustments as needed I suppose. We have a daughter due here in the next couple of weeks...so we'll be making those decisions for both a boy and girl here in the near future.

Thanks for the advice!

[Wes]

We used to live in Grand Prairie (360 and 20 area) and my son went to West Elementary. He seemed to love it and was doing very well there. We moved to Mansfield and he went to DP Morris for his 4th grade year. He was bored to tears because he spent most of the year going over the stuff that he learned in 3rd graded at West Elementary. When a child is bored, he will have issues. He made straight A's, but we still had several discussions with various teachers. Long story short, DP Morris administration has issues.

FWIW, he goes to Cross Timbers now and loves it.

(I don't live far from you guys, either.)