Shooting on railroad tracks

[iCe]

is probably a bad idea.

I used to think that all the froo froo over shooting on railroad tracks was bulls...tuff.

Apparently not. Anyone see the article in Texas Professional Photographer's Don Dickson (Texas School Director)? Holy poop on a stick Batman!

Here are a few excerpts from the article:

"For the last 29 years I have offered my seniors the opportunity to be photographed at our 99 year old train station."

"... of last year, I took a senior and his mother out to the old vacant railroad station for some sunset portraits on the tracks."

"The next day, the "railroad police" came to my stidio, flashed his badge, and informed me that I had committed a "Class B misdemeanor". It was called criminal trespassing."

"He demanded to know who my client was and who the mother was and began to write them a citation, too"

"(1) If you photograph on the railroad track, it is a Class B "Criminal Trespass" in the state of Texas, (2) They don't give warnings and have a "zero tolerance" for this offense. If you are caught you are "busted" and (3) You and your client can both be cited."

"Keep in mind that this was happening in the lobby of my studio with customers present."

"I know it does not make sense, but it is the law and you could serve 6 months in jail and or pay a $10,000.00 fine just for getting that one great image."

The author was put on 6 months deferred adjudication...

[johnastovall]

My question is how did they know so quickly and who it was?

What proof did they have? If they wanted the images, did they have a warrant? I guess I would have gone to court on this rather than rolling over even if it cost a few thousand.

[iCe]

Some guy came up to them when they were shooting and ragged on them about trespassing. I assume that it was a railroad employee. I have no idea how "they" reacted to the guy griping at them. I guess the guy took the license plate number down and went from there.

I used to be in your camp on this. The article was pretty sobering. Stupid... but sobering.

[Gateruner]

My guess in this day and age it has turned into a liability issue and they are being proactive to stop the practice. Fortunately I live in Katy and they have the old Caboose on display on dead tracks. Thats where i will do some shots. Doesnt give me the clean back drop but better than a ticket.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by iCe

Some guy came up to them when they were shooting and ragged on them about trespassing. I assume that it was a railroad employee. I have no idea how "they" reacted to the guy griping at them. I guess the guy took the license plate number down and went from there.

I used to be in your camp on this. The article was pretty sobering. Stupid... but sobering.

That would make my lawyer's day. No citation at the time of the alledged tresspass, very hard then to prove trespass. He might do it for pro bono and look for the pay off when we sued the railroad for civil damages to my business based on the conduct of the railroad dick.

[kenw]

The railroads are under tremendous pressure from homeland security. BNSF recently re-stated a photography ban on property and instructs their crews to report trespassers. Most crews are normal humans and can tell normal folks from mischievious/maliciaous ones. The company would rather they not distinguish and report them all, but they don't. Yes, the attitude of the trespasser is tantamount..... However, most companies of any size already ban photography onsite for IP or other reasons.

one of several threads discussing this:
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/...ad.php?t=16978

Let's face it, if you walked into Kroger's warehouse and started taking pics, would it be any different? Train tracks are NOT public property, people. Everytime some idiot gets hit by a train, whether driving around a lowered crossing gate, racing train to a crossing, or just meandering drunk on the tracks towards home, guess who gets sued? And with Homeland Security breathing down their necks, they're pretty much between a rail and a hardspot....

They don't need a citation at the time, a witness could have provided an auto tag #. If they find conclusive proof, that's all they need. (usually the offender admits to it).

John, if I do a hit and run, and someone gives the cops my tag # and they come after me, how is that any different? (They still have to find proof, however. )

It happens often and stands up in court virtually every time.

[Hogleg 44]

Originally Posted by Gateruner

My guess in this day and age it has turned into a liability issue and they are being proactive to stop the practice. Fortunately I live in Katy and they have the old Caboose on display on dead tracks. Thats where i will do some shots. Doesnt give me the clean back drop but better than a ticket.

One other thing that probably enters into it is 'Homeland Security' since 911.
A lot of bad things could happen if someone set a charge of dynamite between the ties and set it off when a train (Amtrak or hazardous cargo) was passing.

[Pikachu]

I wonder if they can charge you with anything if you are on a public right-of-way adjacent to a grade crossing, such as a city street, taking pictures.

[Steelsun]

Railroad police, like Game Wardens, have always had 'exceptional' powers that are hard to fight.
But entering onto the property of a railroad has been a misdemeanor offense for along time (exceptions are of course such things as crossing tracks on a road, being a rail passenger in the proper place, etc).

I have the actual law cites listed somewhere (had to know them for a continuing education class last year), and will post them when I find my manual.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by kenw

The railroads are under tremendous pressure from homeland security. BNSF recently re-stated a photography ban on property and instructs their crews to report trespassers. Most crews are normal humans and can tell normal folks from mischievious/maliciaous ones. The company would rather they not distinguish and report them all, but they don't. Yes, the attitude of the trespasser is tantamount..... However, most companies of any size already ban photography onsite for IP or other reasons.

one of several threads discussing this:
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/...ad.php?t=16978

Let's face it, if you walked into Kroger's warehouse and started taking pics, would it be any different? Train tracks are NOT public property, people. Everytime some idiot gets hit by a train, whether driving around a lowered crossing gate, racing train to a crossing, or just meandering drunk on the tracks towards home, guess who gets sued? And with Homeland Security breathing down their necks, they're pretty much between a rail and a hardspot....

They don't need a citation at the time, a witness could have provided an auto tag #. If they find conclusive proof, that's all they need. (usually the offender admits to it).

John, if I do a hit and run, and someone gives the cops my tag # and they come after me, how is that any different? (They still have to find proof, however. )

It happens often and stands up in court virtually every time.

They may come to question you but you are not obilagated to answer their questions and they still have to prove you were driving the car unless you decide to confess. This is a misdemeanor so they aren't going spend much money on it. If he's just asking questions and doesn't have a warrant, tell him to get off your property or you are calling the police abut his trespass at that point. If he has a warrant, fine let him serve it and don't say a word until have your lawyer there.

You don't keep your liberties or the liberties of others by just going along. Maybe we all need to start carrying a copy of this in our bags along with Krages Photographer's Rights.

I'm going to stop posting in this thread now or it's going to get too political

[Steelsun]

Found the one for "Interference":

TPC § 28.07. Interference With Railroad Property
(a) In this section:
(1) "Railroad property" means:
(A) a train, locomotive, railroad car, caboose, work equipment, rolling stock, safety
device, switch, or connection that is owned, leased, operated, or possessed by a railroad;
or
(B) a railroad track, rail, bridge, trestle, or right-of-way owned or used by a railroad.
(2) "Tamper" means to move, alter, or interfere with railroad property.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) throws an object or discharges a firearm or weapon at a train or rail-mounted work
equipment; or
(2) without the effective consent of the owner:
(A) enters or remains on railroad property, knowing that it is railroad property;
(B) tampers with railroad property;
(C) places an obstruction on a railroad track or right-of-way; or
57
(D) causes in any manner the derailment of a train, railroad car, or other railroad
property that moves on tracks.
(c) An offense under Subsection (b)(1) is a Class B misdemeanor unless the person
causes bodily injury to another, in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(d) An offense under Subsection (b)(2)(A) is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under Subsection (b)(2)(B), (b)(2)(C), or (b)(2)(D) is a Class C
misdemeanor unless the person causes pecuniary loss, in which event the offense is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the amount of pecuniary loss is $20 or more but less
than $500;
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the amount of pecuniary loss is $500 or more but less
than $1,500;
(3) a state jail felony if the amount of pecuniary loss is $1,500 or more but less than
$20,000;
(4) a felony of the third degree if the amount of the pecuniary loss is $20,000 or more
but less than $100,000;
(5) a felony of the second degree if the amount of pecuniary loss is $100,000 or more
but less than $200,000; or
(6) a felony of the first degree if the amount of the pecuniary loss is $200,000 or more.
(f) The conduct described in Subsection (b)(2)(A) is not an offense under this section
if it is undertaken by an employee of the railroad or by a representative of a labor
organization which represents or is seeking to represent the employees of the railroad as
long as the employee or representative has a right to engage in such conduct under the
Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. Section 151 et seq.).

[Steelsun]

The relevant part is covered in the above rules:

(b) A person commits an offense if the person:
....
(2) without the effective consent of the owner:
(A) enters or remains on railroad property, knowing that it is railroad property;

[Steelsun]

BTW: You can take a picture of RRs, just not from the property itse;f unless you have permission to be there (just like any private property)

[markfh]

Smart thing is to pick your battles. This one takes more money than sense to fight. IMHO

[KeithAlanK]

I still do it all the time, but only under a specific set of circumstances.

I have to be on a public street that the tracks cross, and will only pause for however many seconds it takes to get the shot.

Pausing while walking down the street is still legal in America, right?

(I would never be so bold as to pose someone on the tracks.
That's just stupid.)