Back Home (was: Trip Planning Advice: Desert SW Road Trip)

[johnastovall]

I'm going to be the Contrarian here and say why maintain a frantic pace to go photograph things a thousand other photographers have done?

Why not take you time and look, think and feel and discover new things and news ways of placing those things in a frame?

Follow Robert Frosts advice for this trip....

[jeffkohn]

Originally Posted by Chief

Jeff

It's a 35 mile drive South from farmington and about a 1 to 2 mile hike to the closest area. Keith has some good advice but the area he describes is about a 5 to 6 mile hike. Plus it's a good long day trip. Trust me when you see the Badlands time flies because there is so much to see ! You will be amazed.
Let me know in advance and if you want I can play tour guide. You can always catch shiprock on your way west. You drive right by it.

Remember the return trip. You can always do it then..


Gordon

So it sounds like it might take longer than I would have on Saturday evening after driving in from Amarillo. I originally didn't want to try to do Bisti on Sunday morning because I didn't want to get into the Monument Valley area too late. But based on feedback from you and Keith it sounds like it might be worth going to Bisti Sunday morning and getting into the MV area a little later that afternoon. It would probably mean skipping Valley of the Gods but I should still have time for MV itself.

[scott1120]

From reading the posts it looks like you are planning to see mostly NE Arizona and Utah. What if you flew to Vegas rented a car for the day trips? That would save you tons of time.

just my $.02

[jeffkohn]

Originally Posted by pippin

well you know its not like its going to go anywhere.

True, but if we're going to drive 3500 miles I want to make the most of our time there.

Antelope canyon must be done with a guide, and will take up a couple hours of your time. AND at that point WILL be FILLED full of tourists. I went in the off season there and it was still pretty heavily booked. So if you do decide to do antelope, there will be crowds, ESPECIALLY around midday.

With my current schedule I should be able to spend several hours each at upper and lower antelope. The guidebook I have says you can bypass the tour companies in Page and just drive yourself to the gate to save a few bucks and a little time.

We did a similar road trip when we went on vacation last year - dallas - payson - bryce - arches - antelope - home. Even when we took our time there still wasn't enough time to see it all. Now - with all the things you have listed, you're not going to have a huge amount of time to see it all. Driving sucks. Takes about 3-5 hours to get from page to bryce (took us 3 and we were driving above the speed limit) - and bryce will be crowded in summer. The off season there is also busy. Had to fight for a spot for sunrise shots when I was there, and it was 20 degrees out! Sure, not as busy as zion, but its up there.

Traffic allowing we tend to drive pretty fast. (10-15 miles over the limit, sometimes more on the interstate). I realize some of these places are going to be crowded. I'd rather make this trip in the off-season, but the date wasn't my choosing. Hopefully at some of the locations we can do some hiking to get away from the worst of the crowds at the turnouts.

[jeffkohn]

Originally Posted by Debbi

Did a very similar trip last June (same timeframe as you). Took the mid-day "Photogs tour" through upper Antelope Canyon. Got almost 3 hours in the canyon and the first 2 were just our group of 6. Make sure you make reservations at least a day in advance. Bryce Canyon isn't really that crowded in the summer if you go in the morning. We "tried" to make sunrise. We were staying in Lake Powell and left at 3:30 a.m. for the 2 hour drive - not realizing the sun comes up at 4:30!

I"m hoping to stay close to Bryce, maybe even get a campsite for one night so that making it for sunrise won't be as difficult.

By the time you make it to Vegas, will you be awake for the wedding? Sounds like a fun but exhausting trip.

I'm sure we'll be pretty tired, but a "good" tired. I like vacations that are active; lounging by a pool or at the beach just doesn't hold any interest for me at all.

[jeffkohn]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

I'm going to be the Contrarian here and say why maintain a frantic pace to go photograph things a thousand other photographers have done?

Why not take you time and look, think and feel and discover new things and news ways of placing those things in a frame?

Follow Robert Frosts advice for this trip....

From a pure photography standpoint, you're right. But I have to balance that against this being a vacation, and I also have to consider that my non-photographer wife will be along for the trip. She's actually very tolerant of my photography, but I don't want her to be bored out of her mind. Maybe I won't come away from the Grand Canyon with pictures that haven't been taken before by photographers far better than myself. But IMHO there's still enjoyment to be had in taking those pictures for myself. And there's also the experience of being there and seeing it with my own eyes.

My approach when visiting someplace for the first time is to go broad rather than deep, because I can't always know beforehand which locations/experiences I'm going to connect with most. On return visits, I can explore my favorite locations in more depth.

[jeffkohn]

Originally Posted by scott1120

From reading the posts it looks like you are planning to see mostly NE Arizona and Utah. What if you flew to Vegas rented a car for the day trips? That would save you tons of time.

just my $.02

Three reasons:

1) airfare and SUV rental would add over $1K to the price of the trip;

2) we'd have to pack lighter if flying, would probably have to leave the camping gear and maybe some photo gear at home;

3) We wouldn't get to see White Sands on the way home; (or Bisti Bandlands on the way out assuming I can fit that in).

[pippin]

Originally Posted by jeffkohn

With my current schedule I should be able to spend several hours each at upper and lower antelope. The guidebook I have says you can bypass the tour companies in Page and just drive yourself to the gate to save a few bucks and a little time.

How old is the guidebook? When we went we did a heck of alot of research before hand, and although you USED to be able to go up to the gate by yourself, you cannot anymore since it is on indian land (both are).

Check the internet before you go.

[my3peas]

Yep, you are required to go on the guided tour now. :(
They don't throw you in the back of the pick-up anymore.

[Debbi]

I third that comment. We could not do it by ourselves; however, we used Antelope Canyon Tours in Page and the guide ROCKED! Once the tourist started showing up, he worked with the other guide(s) to make sure they stayed out of our pics. The photog's tour cost a little more but WELL worth it. Got some amazing pics and only 2 of my 300+ pics had people parts in it!

[pippin]

I used these guys :
http://www.antelopeslotcanyon.com/

great guys, really helpful, and they give you ideas on how to take shots and good angles and such. always take the photographers tour as its longer (you need it)

[Chief]

A quick idea of the area ( Bisti Badlands )I had in mind. This is a 6 shot pano, so it may be a little small.

Gordon

[jeffkohn]

About Antelope Canyon and guides. Did you folks go during the peak summer season or some other time of year? Did you do both Upper and Lower canyons, or just Upper?

One of the books I have is Laurent Martres' 2nd edition which was published in 2006, though I suppose some of the info may not have been completely updated from the original 2002 publish date. All three guidebooks I have say that while you do have to hire a guide, you can hire a Navajo guide at the entrance, skipping the tours that leave from Page. They do say that there's not always somebody available at the gate for Upper canyon, particularly during the off-season; but they say during the summer season there is usually someone there. This thread at LL is fairly recent and some participants claim you can still go without the Page tour companies, particularly for the Lower canyon.

Looking at the link Lisa provided, I don't even see any mention of tours to Lower Antelope; so I sure hope it's possible to go without one of the Page tour companies.

If I have to go with the guided tour I will, although the "photographer" tours seem like a bit of a ripoff at $80 or so for the two of us. I mean if all they do is throw some sand up in the air and ask people to wait a sec so you can take your shot, my wife can do that.

But at $80 a tour I'm not so sure we'll still want to do both Upper and Lower. Anybody been to both and care to offer some opinions? One of my guides suggest skipping the crowds at Upper and just doing the Lower canyon, where he says there's actually more photo potential if you're willing to live without the vertical sunbeams.

Thanks for the feedback guys, this is the kind of stuff I want to figure out as much as possible before we leave.

[jeffkohn]

Originally Posted by Chief

http://gordonlee.smugmug.com/photos/104464637-L.jpg

A quick idea of the area ( Bisti Badlands )I had in mind. This is a 6 shot pano, so it may be a little small.

Gordon

Gordon, that's a neat shot. I think I am going to add Bisti to the list. (updated itenerary in the top post).

[pippin]

I went in the off season (november) which around midday was still busy and full of photographers. Yes, you used to be able to hire a guide at the gate, but not anymore, they're all out of page.

A regular tour you're really only there for 30-45 minutes, a photographers tour you're there for an hour and a half. We paid the extra and didn't seem it to be a rip-off. Now, there are cheaper ones too, but we paid the extra for a smaller tour company because there were less people.

here's the navajo parks page : http://www.navajonationparks.org/htm/antelopecanyon.htm

Now, you have to remember that lower antelope is smaller and harder to get in and out of, and can be prone to flash floods.