a little (excuse me...a LOT) pissed off with nissan

[kamari]

I have an 02 altima. A year ago some of my power valve screws came loose and were sucked into the engine's intake and damaged spark plugs and the engine manifold. The heat from the engine melted the screws (the mechanic pulled out what he believed to be the melted remains of one of the screws but couldn't find evidence of what happened to the others). I had $2500 in engine repairs.

I found out thru an ex nissan mechanic that there was a recall issued for this exact problem on the 04 & 05 altimas so I did a lil research. Turns out that there are 81,000 documented cases of this problem in 04 & 05 altimas. The screws that were recalled were in the 02-05 models so I began asking why the 02 and 03 models weren't included in the recall. 11 months and about 15 callas to 800-NISSAN1 and a very sarcastic response from DFW's nissan representative later I still have nothing of an answer as to why and its pissin me off. This guy never returned any of my 3 direct messages OR the messages that other nissan representatives left on my behalf.

I kindly explained to him that since the same part is in all of the new body styles and Nissan admittedly knew that was also an issue with 02 and 03 models then why is it that the 02 and 03s are not included in the recall. My logic is that at the time the recall was issued, most 02 and 03 owners were well over their power train warranties and so nissan probably let them just think "hey, my car's old, this is what happens to cars with high mileage." This was reinforced with his sarcastic reply to me: "you got over 100,000 miles on your car!" to which my reply is "it doesn't matter if its 100,000 or 100 miles. If you manufacture a defective part then you should take responsibility for that."

The kicker is that all of this could have been prevented by a 10 minute inspection of the screws during an oil change. I'm really thinkin about pursuing some legal avenues being that this issue could have been easily avoided if it weren't for Nissan's negligence.

whew!...i'm done venting

[carlyerin]

I have a friend who works for the Dept of Transportation specifically for vehicle saftey and recalls. In DC. I'm copying this over to him.

[dtscds]

I heard a few times on a consumer affairs type radio show that if you can't get anyone at the local level to act you can request a sit down with the regional supervisor. I can't remember the actual title they go by right now.
Another piece of advice from the same guy but he was specifically talking about cell phone companies here (but I don't see why it wouldn't work with cars as well). Figure out when their busiest time of the week is--probably Saturday afternoons) and show up to speak with the manager. Make sure you are inside the showroom! When they blow you off start to escalate! Raise you voice a bit and start expressing how displeased you are with their customer service. You spent a lot of money for your car and now you can't get anyone to give you a good answer why it wasn't fixed during the recall. Don't make an a## of yourself but make sure you are getting some attention from other car shoppers. It won't take them long to usher you away to some inner sanctum.
Never had the huevos to try it but I bet it would be effective at cutting through the red tape!

[NathanJK]

Originally Posted by dtscds

I heard a few times on a consumer affairs type radio show that if you can't get anyone at the local level to act you can request a sit down with the regional supervisor. I can't remember the actual title they go by right now.
Another piece of advice from the same guy but he was specifically talking about cell phone companies here (but I don't see why it wouldn't work with cars as well). Figure out when their busiest time of the week is--probably Saturday afternoons) and show up to speak with the manager. Make sure you are inside the showroom! When they blow you off start to escalate! Raise you voice a bit and start expressing how displeased you are with their customer service. You spent a lot of money for your car and now you can't get anyone to give you a good answer why it wasn't fixed during the recall. Don't make an a## of yourself but make sure you are getting some attention from other car shoppers. It won't take them long to usher you away to some inner sanctum.
Never had the huevos to try it but I bet it would be effective at cutting through the red tape!

I speak from experience...at North Texas Nissan the General Manager will not hesitate to threaten to call the police and kick you out, all while calling you a "flip flop wearing fairy faggot". (In front of the whole showroom) They really don't care THAT MUCH about potentially loosing customers over their behavior it seems. Kamari, your experience doesn't surprise me!

[kamari]

Thanks Carly.

DTSCDS, the guy I got the sarcasm from was William Walls, Nissan Representative for the metroplex. The issue has nothing to do with the actual dealership, although they did piss me off by suggesting that "someone must have been doin something on your engine to have this happen, cuz these screws don't just come loose by themselves." That statement was made prior to me finding out about the recall on the screws. The dealership manager directed me to Mr. Walls at Nissan Corporate because the issue wasn't something that the dealership could handle.

Turns out that the screws on all of the models were not dipped in locktite and the vibration of the engine is enough to rattle them loose.

That altima coupe is a beauty...wonder how good of a deal I can get by making a scene out of this I'd really like to stay in the nissan family but this type of service makes it hard to do so. You pay 30k for a car and the least i'd expect is some kind of explanation as to why my model was not included in the recall. I had to talk to Mr. Walls as though he were 5 because he didn't see how he could give me that answer. I explained to him that a group of engineers met to conduct root cause analysis on the issue. Based on their findings, calculations were made as to how much this was gonna cost Nissan. Based on those calculations and other factors the decision was agreed upon that the 02 and 03 models were not going to be included, and that information is documented somewhere. THAT is the information I'd like to see.

He says "well I can go get the guy who put your car together too and ask him about the screws if you'd like." He's glad we weren't face to face.

[carlyerin]

Kamari I got a response from my friend. He said:

This isn't really advice, but I can tell you what I think. It's also a personal opinion....I just have to say that.

Federal law limits the authority of my Agency to force automotive recalls on issues that are strictly related to safety. The problem in the post does not appear to meet that standard. So, in a case like this, the vehicle owner has the legal system as a recourse, as has already been mentioned. If he/she as good documentation on the matter (repair invoices, etc), it might be something he/she could pursue via legal action. Others have certainly done it. Unfortunately, this is a really tough situation for the vehicle owner. Posting it on a Forum might help to identify others who've had similar problems, and there is strength in numbers.

[jerrykr]

The engine ingesting metal, lunching out on the freeway and dying in the middle of traffic is not a safety issue?

give me a break.

I like Nissan. But, they all try to save money and "face" (not just the Japanese).

Remember the Firestone 500s? OK, I'm old, but I wouldn't knowly buy a Firestone tire after that corporate decision.

Nissan should at least "call back in -- what ever you'd like to call it except a recall") to inspect the screws. Looking at the screws and adding a drop of Loctite will not break Nissan.

As a whole, they don't want to add a recall to their statistics. It looks bad to the general public. "Hey the Altima had more recalls than the XXX!". Well MAYBE that would be a good thing.

Me, I'd prefer that they offer a free oil change, and check out all the things they (all auto manufactures) know about, but don't want to admit to. If you wouldn't hold them to the promised 15 minutes lube, they could fix the problems with no one the wiser. And you'd be the winner.

Publicity and statistics are not always our friend.

[arcproducts]

Kamari - -

I think there is something in the car industry called an 'IMPLIED WARRANTY' .... I had a stick shift car back in the 80's that was needing a new clutch at about 30,000 miles. Now, I don't know anything about mechanics of cars or their parts..... but I just figured I should get more than 30,000 miles out of it. So I began an odessey similar to yours. Doing my own research, asking questions, making calls. And I made calls and wrote letters up to the manufacturers level. Once you get the vibes that the local or regional people are just blowing you off..... well, left me no choice. The locals were trying to tell me that I rode the clutch.... EXCUSE ME?......... have you been driving with me? I DON'T RIDE THE CLUTCH... I do know what that is..... With that they said well other drivers might..... oh I get it, they know I am the ONLY DRIVER and they are trying to insult me. Come on. So, like I said, went to the top. Got some answers fairly quickly .... about the IMPLIED WARRANTY. They fixed it.

Then - - with my NISSAN MAXIMA, I had an A/C problem. Kept taking it to the dealer and they could not 'DUPLICATE' the problem. I was persistent and found out after about a year of sweating in the Houston heat that it would slightly cool, blow warm, blow cool, blow warm, etc. But it did not do that until you drove at 65 for about 10 minutes. Soooooooo, I made someone go on a road trip with me. BINGO. They fixed it..... new compressor. My car had passed warranty time, but this fell under an IMPLIED warranty too I suppose.

I never threatened or got REAL ugly, I was just persistent, tried not to whine, and was handling in a businesslike professional manner. Just insisting on results. Not trying to get anything for free......

So keep up your calls, emails, visits, letters. Send them certified. That gets their attention. Put a cc to your 'attorney' if you have one - that will show you are serious.

Good luck. Keep us updated. Sorry this is so long, just wanted to pass on my 99 cents worth.

We can all learn.