Requesting permission...

[TxManx]

Question for all of you who use historic / abandoned buildings for portraits and other photographic backdrops...

How do you approach the task of requesting permission to access? Most of the places I've looked at have 'no trespassing' signs up - even though they probably don't meet the legal requirements of posting...

Do you bother with lookng up the owner and requesting permission, or just proceed?

If any of you have been stopped by police, have you ever had to deal with them other than leaving if they ask you to?

Thanks in advance...

Ken

[jonnydonut]

Never tresspass when working with a client. While you need to respect people's property, most no trespassing signs are to prevent parties and vandalism. In my younger more stupid days when I didn't get permission, I was stopped a few times, and every time they just said something along the lines of "oh, it's alright as long as you're just taking pictures". I think it really all depends on the property. Def contact the owner if possible.

Just be careful not to run into this person:
illegal photographing

[andyz]

I think the other issue is one not of legality, but safety. Ensure you're not getting into a death trap of rotten wood you'll fall through, etc.

I think researching and contacting could be a cumbersome process. When I have stopped for old building that have character, I usually shoot from the outside. But I could see getting adventurous once in awhile if it looks safe and you don't have to break to enter.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by TxManx

Question for all of you who use historic / abandoned buildings for portraits and other photographic backdrops...

How do you approach the task of requesting permission to access? Most of the places I've looked at have 'no trespassing' signs up - even though they probably don't meet the legal requirements of posting...

Do you bother with lookng up the owner and requesting permission, or just proceed?

If any of you have been stopped by police, have you ever had to deal with them other than leaving if they ask you to?

Thanks in advance...

Ken

The legal requirments for posting are very open. Painting purple strips on tress can indicate posting.

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS[0]. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or
someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously
designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at
the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the
attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint
marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks
are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight
inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark
is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet
from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily
visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other
than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a
crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the
process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time
of entry.
(3) "Shelter center" has the meaning assigned by
Section 51.002, Human Resources Code.
(4) "Forest land" means land on which the trees are
potentially valuable for timber products.
(5) "Agricultural land" has the meaning assigned by
Section 75.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
(6) "Superfund site" means a facility that:
(A) is on the National Priorities List
established under Section 105 of the federal Comprehensive
Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (42
U.S.C. Section 9605); or
(B) is listed on the state registry established
under Section 361.181, Health and Safety Code.
(7) "Critical infrastructure facility" means one of
the following, if completely enclosed by a fence or other physical
barrier that is obviously designed to exclude intruders:
(A) a chemical manufacturing facility;
(B) a refinery;
(C) an electrical power generating facility,
substation, switching station, electrical control center, or
electrical transmission or distribution facility;
(D) a water intake structure, water treatment
facility, wastewater treatment plant, or pump station;
(E) a natural gas transmission compressor
station;
(F) a liquid natural gas terminal or storage
facility;
(G) a telecommunications central switching
office;
(H) a port, railroad switching yard, trucking
terminal, or other freight transportation facility;
(I) a gas processing plant, including a plant
used in the processing, treatment, or fractionation of natural gas;
or
(J) a transmission facility used by a federally
licensed radio or television station.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor at the time of the offense was a fire fighter or emergency
medical services personnel, as that term is defined by Section
773.003, Health and Safety Code, acting in the lawful discharge of
an official duty under exigent circumstances.

[CobyPhoto]

I would NEVER take a client onto property I did not have permission to shoot, unless that property is public and is appropriate. If it is private, no matter if it is posted or not, I would never take a client and shoot there. Plain and simple, if you don't have permission, you don't need to be on that person's/entity's private property taking photos. I would never put my client in a postition that might involve them in a law suit or tarnish my reputation in any way.

Do you just drive up into a nice home's drive and hop out and take a photo in front of the house, because it is nice and has great landscaping? Probably not. Doesn't matter if it is abandonded or not, it is still private property.

The people that do post, are most often times limiting liability from people that do enter. [What Andyz said is most often the reason that the property is posted.] People tresspass in an old abandonded building and get hurt, and the first thing that happens is the owner of the property is sued...NOT the dumba** that knowingly entered and took the risk of getting hurt.

CJ

[dbphotos]

Originally Posted by jonnydonut

Just be careful not to run into this person:
illegal photographing

That's hilarious!

[onewingedangel73106]

omg that lady is on that video sounds like shes a mix of schizophrenic and paranoid, but than why let it escalate to the point they did sometimes its just better to leave and come back later lol.

On the topic I have been known to photograph abandoned buildings and enjoy it but yes if there is a trespassing sign I try in some way to see if I can reach the person sometimes it can be to your advantage if they say its ok because than you not only have more time for the photographing without watching your back and who knows they might even show you around :)

[studiocygnet]

Originally Posted by jonnydonut

Just be careful not to run into this person:
illegal photographing

Man, her throat must have been really sore after that.

I would have to agree with Coby on the tresspassing issue. After all, it is a photograph you are taking, so you would be providing the evidence against yourself if in the future someone accused you or your client of tresspassing. Anyone remember the photographer that had police show up at his door for taking photos on the railroad tracks. That may have been on this forum, I don't remember.

[Digital Daddy]

There may be other considerations if you are shooting with a commercial intrest. I think it would be wise to have a release for the property as well as the model.

[TxManx]

All -

Thanks for the replies - the video was priceless, if not somewhat sad.

I think the focus of the replies have been whether or not to actually continue shooting...

What I'm actually trying to find out is, should I choose to pursue contacting someone for consent, what's the best way to find contact information for locations like this?

Hopefully it would go without saying that I wouldn't risk the health of my client taking them somewhere that's illegal to access, and potentially dangerous. The potential liabilities are too numerous to count.

My thoughts on these locations are purely for artistic photographs, not for commercial purposes other than 'fine art' type prints...

Ken

[CaptainTom]

Sometimes it's easier to get forgiveness, than to get permission.

I use this on an incident by incident basis. If I expect to use something commercially, release is important. If it won't be recognizable, release is less important.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the signs, and i'll be happy to leave immediately if you like. Usually works for me.

[Night Owl]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

Sometimes it's easier to get forgiveness, than to get permission.

Hmmm...perhaps, but if the property owner presses the issue and its presented to the DA's office that signage was up and in plain sight, it might end up rather unpleasant for the trespasser. Unless you like institutional food and orange jumpers.

My feeling is that if its not worth the effort to ask for permission, then the location can't be that great to begin with.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

Sometimes it's easier to get forgiveness, than to get permission.

I use this on an incident by incident basis. If I expect to use something commercially, release is important. If it won't be recognizable, release is less important.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the signs, and i'll be happy to leave immediately if you like. Usually works for me.

I agree with Night Owl...it is this very attitude and disreguard for porperty owners rights and property (when you KNOW you are tresspasing) that irks the hell outta me. If your on my property, I ain't even running you off...just calling the cops and telling em I want charges pressed.

Respect goes a long way in this world and it is getting way too often people fail to show it.

Just my opinion, but I think it is one that is shared by many property owners. Show me the respect to ask and you can shoot away. Disrespect my rights and to hell with you. Why should I forgive someone that KNEW he shouldn't be there in the first place?

CJ

[jonnydonut]

I want to clarify my first post. I never trespass on marked private property. I take a lot of road trips, out west to UT, AZ, MN, and on those trips, I have no idea what land belongs to who. I wonder and search for shots, places other than the road.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by jonnydonut

I want to clarify my first post. I never trespass on marked private property. I take a lot of road trips, out west to UT, AZ, MN, and on those trips, I have no idea what land belongs to who. I wonder and search for shots, places other than the road. I could be tresspassing, how do I know?

OP - you might try whitepages.com and look up the address and try to find a phone number or name. There might be some real-estate resources out there. Obviously this owner is written down Somewhere with the city. I don't know how to find out property owners, but I'm going to keep checking this post in hopes that someone does.

All land belongs to someone. In Texas you can find out who owns any parcel of land by going to the county clerk's office and find the records or if you have an address the county Apprisal district's web site if the county has one or visit the county appriser. Also check the maps at a local title company for ownership, since they have to search the title for all sales.

Or look up "Landman" in the yellow pages find one and buy him lunch. It's their job to find who owns what for mineral rights and they know all the resources. For a good steak, he can tell you a lot of tricks to finding who owns what.

Every square foot of Texas land can be traced back to a Texas Land Patent, issued either by the Republic or the State. Texas is unique in that it retained all public land land when it became a state and did not assign it to the Federal Government. A patent is the document which transfers land ownership from the state to an individual for the first time after that it is transfered by title.