Roger Clemens a juicer?

[Sonny]

ESPN2: Roger Clemens listed in report due out today naming players who used performance enhancing drugs.

www.cnn.com

[AllenAyres]

Of course, most pro athlete's have used performance enhancing substances at one point or another in their careers in the last 20+ years. The issue becomes where the line is drawn - "pro-hormones" are legal to obtain over the counter and were legal to use until recently. They're always developing new ones that aren't on a list somewhere and can't be tested for. Creatine could be considered in the same class (performance enhancing substance), as could some of the MRP's out there now... caffeine, in the right amounts, can do a lot of performance enhancing.

Pro athletes will always push the envelope in order to progress and get an edge physically and mentally - always have. It's just in Babe Ruth's era it was speed, in Hank Aaron's era it was speed, painkillers and liver pills (not saying either took them, but a lot did).

[Joe_Lorenzini]

They'd better have some pretty hard evidence that he was doing it knowingly. Clemens seems fairly untouchable and given the guys work ethic seems to be in an area only Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods inhabit.

I say "seems" a lot because it's obviously a perceptual thing.

_/oe

[BrianY]

There won't be any hard evidence. All the evidence was gathered from non-player interviews.

Supposedly a bunch of prominent Yankees are on the report; no mention of RedSox players.

Sen. Mitchell just happens to be on the Red Sox board. Conflict of interest, perhaps?

Tens of millions of dollars for a 400 page report, and what? Not much will come out of this.

[David_3]

Don't forget to add the governor of California to that list.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by AllenAyres

"pro-hormones" are legal to obtain over the counter and were legal to use until recently. They're always developing new ones that aren't on a list somewhere and can't be tested for. Creatine could be considered in the same class (performance enhancing substance), as could some of the MRP's out there now... caffeine, in the right amounts, can do a lot of performance enhancing.

Prohormones are still legal to use, just not legal to buy. Anyone with a stash of them that isn't selling them is 100% within their rights to keep them and use them and never worry about prosecution.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by byu

There won't be any hard evidence. All the evidence was gathered from non-player interviews.

Supposedly a bunch of prominent Yankees are on the report; no mention of RedSox players.

Sen. Mitchell just happens to be on the Red Sox board. Conflict of interest, perhaps?

Tens of millions of dollars for a 400 page report, and what? Not much will come out of this.

It was also gathered from Patrick Arnold from BALCO, the man who created Andro and THG

Mr. Arnold’s accomplishments and precedents are astounding and have made him an icon in the supplement and performance enhancing substance communities. He has introduced multiple supplements to the market such as choline, ipriflavone, chrysin, and lysophosphidyl. He is considered to be one of the world’s foremost experts in male hormonal enhancement and muscle development and he has been labeled the “father of prohormones”. This is perhaps where his most notable accomplishment lies as he was responsible for the introduction of the prohomrone androstenedione, better known as “andro”, into the mainstream. Andro gained much fame and notoriety, when former Major League Baseball player Mark McGuire admitted that he took the testosterone aiding substance to fuel his single season home run record breaking year in 1998.

[AllenAyres]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Prohormones are still legal to use, just not legal to buy. Anyone with a stash of them that isn't selling them is 100% within their rights to keep them and use them and never worry about prosecution.

I can purchase prohormones OTC now from any number of supplement/vitamin stores. Some of the older ones were banned, but newer ones have taken their place that are just as strong/ stronger... it's a never-ending cat-and-mouse game.

[Mike G]

None of the new ones are classified as a pro-hormone .. they might have very similar effects but they are not "pro-hormones"

On October 22nd, 2004, President Bush signed into law the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 (118 Stat. 1661). [1] The bill was written to become effective in 90 days, which was January 20, 2005. This legislation places both anabolic steroids and prohormones on a list of controlled substances (a new type of "regulatory control").

Most of the ones you see on the shelves are either fake (there are so damn many of these you wouldn't believe it) or will be added to the banned list in short order, and the real ones people stock up on them before they are removed. I played that cat and mouse game for a while and still have my own personal stash of now illegal to buy supplements, I'm well aware of the legalities of what I own and where to get what is still legal and available, and what is now illegal to buy but still own. What you will also find is some companies will release a product with a very similar name to one of the known producers but it will be crap with no results, Superdrol has so many fakes that are named the same its not even funny anymore.

[Chris Anderson]

90% of professional athletes and probably 70% of college athltes are using. Don't kid yourself into thinging it is only a few, testing is pathetic. Fans want bigger, faster, stronger... they are only giving us what we want!
I have trained several body builders over the years, for contest and I can honestly say, steriods are just a small "tool" used to obtain a goal.
Do you think Barry Bonds is not a bas ass? Don't kid yourself! He would have been a star anyway....
C

[Mike G]

[Doug C.]

Pettitte is suppose to be in the report too.

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by Chris Anderson

90% of professional athletes and probably 70% of college athletes are using. Don't kid yourself into thinking it is only a few, testing is pathetic. Fans want bigger, faster, stronger... they are only giving us what we want!
I have trained several body builders over the years, for contest and I can honestly say, steroids are just a small "tool" used to obtain a goal.
Do you think Barry Bonds is not a bas ass? Don't kid yourself! He would have been a star anyway....
C

It all amounts to deception if you ask me. Want to earn my respect and admiration? Be a real man and perform without the artificial junk.

There's no way to know for sure about BB.

[Concisus Cognatus]

All reasons why Bonds HR record should be without asterisk. It's simply the times in which he played.

Originally Posted by Chris Anderson

90% of professional athletes and probably 70% of college athltes are using. Don't kid yourself into thinging it is only a few, testing is pathetic. Fans want bigger, faster, stronger... they are only giving us what we want!
I have trained several body builders over the years, for contest and I can honestly say, steriods are just a small "tool" used to obtain a goal.
Do you think Barry Bonds is not a bas ass? Don't kid yourself! He would have been a star anyway....
C

[Chris Anderson]

Originally Posted by nikkonhobbyman

All reasons why Bonds HR record should be without asterisk. It's simply the times in which he played.

I agree completely.


I know for a fact players at more than one texas college insitutions, mainly the football schools, know well in advance when it is there day to "pee in the cup"


It is a proven fact Test levels in males, begins to decline, after the age of 25... If you are in you 40's or older, and are feeling laggy, tired, with no sex drive? Go see your doctor and ask him to check your test levels. They will be low and he will prescribe it to you.

It has been taboo in our society because the governmet says its "bad" .... Call any wellness clinic and they will put you on test and growth..... Its funny to "hear" the experts that have NO CLUE what they are talking about.
It really is no miracle, the drugs are meaningless without proper diet and LOTS of hard work.
Sorry for sounding like I am on a soap box, there are many misinformed people!
C