'Splain something to me...

[Wes]

A few months ago oil was $147/bbl and gas was around $4.00/gal (at least, that's what it was in my neck of the DFW metroplex). Oil has dropped almost 1/3 since then, but gas has not. It seems to me that gas prices should drop as quickly as oil prices, which means that gas should be just under $3.00/gal. Why isn't it? I get so tired of the greed and gouging that goes on, and what is even more sad is that we treat it as normal, accept it, and go on.

[amadjuster]

Here in Amarillo gas dropped to $3.49 a gallon and then jumped to $3.69 when it was announced that Gustov "might" damage oil rigs in the Gulf. The same gas was in the tanks that was being sold for the lower price, of course. The price then went down to $3.59 where it is today, even after it was announced that there was little or no damage to the rigs or refineries. This announcement caused the futures market on oil to drop like a rock, but retail prices that go up at the drop of a hat come down like honey running downhill in a blizzard.

I am sure you all have seen ol' Boone Pickens doing his thing for wind and compressed natural gas for cars (100 miles between fillups!) but no one has asked Boone where he is NOT putting his windmills. How about on his ranch. He thinks they are butt ugly. Oh, he also owns the company that makes the equipment to compress natural gas to put in your car. This industry has been stalled out for years but will boom if only suckers, uh people buy into the theory that they can fill up every hundred miles and save a polar bear.

It takes at least 200 windmills to equal a power plant that covers about a section of land that is almost invisible. The 200 windmills are anything but invisible.

[alamoshutterbug]

Originally Posted by amadjuster

It takes at least 200 windmills to equal a power plant that covers about a section of land that is almost invisible. The 200 windmills are anything but invisible.

So what's more important, physical footprint or ecological footprint?

[Joe_Lorenzini]

As much as I don't like to discuss this stuff on photo forums my first and honest answer to your question Wes is:

What can we do about it?

My initial answer is nothing, seriously. These companies are untouchable by anyone but the largest governments and they've continually shown that they're not willing to do anything but talk about it.

So the only action that "I" see can happen is to change our lifestyles as consumers.
- Travel less. Consumers already traveled a billion miles less this year (I tried to find the link for that but couldn't so please dispute or confirm). The word "Staycation" will be in the dictionary soon...

- Demand cars that are energy efficient - Companies are already seeing this happen (and I hope that a silly price drop to a still ridiculous $3.50 won't deter what's been started). Hybrids are in huge demand and companies can't make them fast enough while SUV's are offering up to $15,000 off sticker prices and have turnover sitting in used lots.


I'm in on at least these two ideas. I traveled less this year and my auto lease is up in 3 weeks and I'm only looking at cars with 28mpg or better. My first choice would be a hybrid but may be restricted by two things - 1. Availability and 2. Cost premiums put on these cars by manufacturers (grrrr).

So I'm open to other suggestions or ideas but as far as effecting the companies who drill and process the oil, I just don't see any (effective) change possible.

And that sure is depressing/maddening to know other's control your lives like that.

_/oe

[amadjuster]

Originally Posted by alamoshutterbug

So what's more important, physical footprint or ecological footprint?

I can get the size of the base of the windmill and multiply it by 200, if you like. Actually, the power plant takes up much less area than that. The one I am thinking of is sitting on a section of land so I just used that area. I also understand that about 10% to 20% of these windmills are down and not producing energy at any given time so that has to be taken into account.

I do know that the base of these windmills are bigger than a tree so they are pretty hard to hug.

[andyz]

This reminds me of when I was young and managing a loan portfolio as well as other lenders. Our loan rates were based on the prime rate. The bank president was out one day when the prime went up. I took the initiative to send out a memo to the lenders that since prime went up, our new rates were x, y, and z as a result if the increase. The president was pleased that I did this. I did it the next 2 or 3 times as well.

When prime fell, I sent a similar memo lowering our rates. Well Katy, bar the door. I was asked where I got the authority for that.

I agree, the price at the pump goes up based on speculation, and it goes down over time based on the price per barrel working its way through the refinery process.

I believe the fact is that Americans have finally reached the point where we are driving less and looking to save. The lower demand that we collectively contribute to is bringing the price down.

[JPalmer]

David, I'd be more concerned with Pickens pumping out all of your water from the Ogallala Aquifer to Dallas/Fort Worth, even though there are enough water supply lakes.

[amadjuster]

Originally Posted by JPalmer

David, I'd be more concerned with Pickens pumping out all of your water from the Ogallala Aquifer to Dallas/Fort Worth, even though there are enough water supply lakes.

The Feds just voided his "water district" so they are putting that on hold. His problem now is that the Fish and Wildlife people are about to make the lesser prairie chicken an endangered specie and guess where they live? The same places he wants to build his power lines to carry "his" electricity to Ft. Worth. Boone will be doing some environmental impact studies for awhile. All the water and power he wants to create to "help" America will not go to the areas around him, it will go to the highest bidder. No towns where the pipeline is proposed to go by or under will have access to it.

He keeps hitting snags and his plan to help Boone, I mean America, is coming off the tracks.

Don't believe everything you hear or read.

[SCone]

Check out the low frequency sounds, bat & bird killings, before you start chasing the wind answer.

[amadjuster]

Originally Posted by SCone

Check out the low frequency sounds, bat & bird killings, before you start chasing the wind answer.

There is a proposal to put up a bunch of these things all around the escarpment above Caprock Canyons State park. Won't that be lovely! I guess Palo Duro Canyon will be next. How about one on top of the Lighthouse! Before that is done, I would like to see these things all over Austin and the Hill Country so they can share in our "green_ness".

Bahhhhhh.

[SCone]

Put in the halls of Congress, that's where the biggest blow-hards are at..........

[amadjuster]

Originally Posted by SCone

Put in the halls of Congress, that's where the biggest blow-hards are at..........

[dbphotos]

The simple answer to your question is that only 55% of retail gas prices are directly related to oil prices, the rest has to do with everything else going up in costs.

I'm an "all of the above" person; drill more, drill now, use less, alternative energy sources.

We've ordered a 40mpg Honda Civic for my wife who will trade her Acura MDX which gets <20mpg. For now I'm keeping my Hummer.

[kamari]

Originally Posted by Wes

A few months ago oil was $147/bbl and gas was around $4.00/gal (at least, that's what it was in my neck of the DFW metroplex). Oil has dropped almost 1/3 since then, but gas has not. It seems to me that gas prices should drop as quickly as oil prices, which means that gas should be just under $3.00/gal. Why isn't it? I get so tired of the greed and gouging that goes on, and what is even more sad is that we treat it as normal, accept it, and go on.

*sigh* break out the calculator...or maybe not. I'll try to break it down quick. gas prices are not directly proportionate to the price of oil. A barrel of oil (42gal) will only produce about 19gal of gas...a bit more for light sweet and a bit less for heavy crude. The days of finding light sweet oil have come to an end. That means higher costs and more refining time to get to and process the heavy stuff. So, depending on the type of oil pumped out of the ground, a fixed price per barrel can result in a price difference from the refineries of probably 50-60 cents per gallon.

The price of gas almost never jumps up and down to the degree as the price of oil does, and gas prices are usually a slow climb while oil can change much more drastically per day. The reason (and the sort-of answer to your ques) is that the price you pay at the pump is
a) the price opec charges per barrel plus
b) refining costs by your gas company plus
c) shipping costs to the gas station you buy it at, hence that gas station up in yosemite park (for those of you who have had the pleasure of running low in the area) was $3.57 back when gas here was $2.15.

The price change in a barrel of oil only represents a percentage of what you pay at the pump. It's the change in that percentage that drives what you pay.

People keep throwing stones at Exxon but the truth is that they were profitting on the same percentage numbers years ago that they are now...its just that you (as consumers) are using more and more and more gas, so their final number from those same percentages are thru the roof. Nobody complained back then but everybody wants to blame them now. Actually, blame OPEC; blame their decision making and forecasting for world gasoline usage, and blame them for wanting to make money for their countries off of the richest nations that buy oil from them.

It's the game of supply and demand at its finest, and unfortunately we're on the bottom of this totem pole...or are we? Wanna see what "normal" is? Go to a country like Germany, who produces about as much of its own oil as you do in your bathtub, and see what their gas prices have ALWAYS been at. Go to Venezuela and see the other end where they import zero % of their oil and so can sell to their citizens for $0.86 a gallon.

Until y'all trade in y'all big azz Ford F950s (pun intended) and Range Rovers with 15mpg and stop drivin 50 miles each way to work this is what to expect. Hey, I hate it too but I also understand the business. We as americans haven't done anything to ease the crisis. Its driven into our heads that bigger is better. Trade in that Neon & get a Tahoe that you'll actually make real use out of one day a month. SUV sales have driven Ford & GM to have profits thru the roof in the 90s and early 2000s...now that same monster tactic is what's driving them both under now that we're starting to realize that "hey, maybe bigger ain't so much better."

[amadjuster]

The only problem with this argument is that diesel prices where I live are now under $4.00 a gallon, but gas is still $3.58. Screwy, isn't it.

I will not buy a moped powered Yugo type car and get squashed by a truck! I used my full size GMC Extended Cab pickup with the 5.4 L V-8 and I get 20 to 22 MPG on the highway at 70 MPH. My wife's Buick Lucerne gets 32 or better. I would rather drive a Lucerne than a 900 lb. foreign death trap. I will also not go to 55 MPH again like we were screwed into back in the 70's. I still have a bumped sticker that says, "Drive 70 and freeze a yankee." Oh, and they are drilling new wells like crazy around Odessa and it is mostly West Texas Light Crude.

Now then, I must prepare my backyard for the outhouse I will have to build and the pit for my carbide so I can have lights. Boy, I love tree huggers.