Ike power out... anyone think there is a problem?

[CFord]

Originally Posted by Steelsun

The difference between Walmart, photographers, etc increasing their prices after a disaster, and a monopoly doing the same, is that we have a CHOICE with most businesses not to shop there/use them.
Not the same with Centerpoint unless we move.

You don't buy your electricity from CenterPoint now. You can thank your elected representatives for that. CenterPoint still charges the same amount for the use of their facilities as they did previously but now you have a middle man like Reliant, TXU, etc that pays them in order to serve you. Maybe my math is bad but that does nothing but increase the cost because now you as the customer have to support to multiple companies instead of just one. While this forum is a great place to vent I would recommend putting togther a package for your state representative to cover these issues. They have more full authority over the Utilies through their oversite commissions and they are the ones that approve any changes that are requested by the utility before it ever goes out to the public.

[amadjuster]

Put up your own windmill in the back yard! Of course, if it blows over and crushes a few houses, your insurance may go up.

[gmarblestone]

I was hoping someone else would get super into it and do this for me :).
But i am going to wait until things settle down a bit before bringing this up to anyone. Like you said... i am just venting. There is such a diverse community on here, maybe a congressman is reading this thread!

G

Originally Posted by CFord

You don't buy your electricity from CenterPoint now. You can thank your elected representatives for that. CenterPoint still charges the same amount for the use of their facilities as they did previously but now you have a middle man like Reliant, TXU, etc that pays them in order to serve you. Maybe my math is bad but that does nothing but increase the cost because now you as the customer have to support to multiple companies instead of just one. While this forum is a great place to vent I would recommend putting togther a package for your state representative to cover these issues. They have more full authority over the Utilies through their oversite commissions and they are the ones that approve any changes that are requested by the utility before it ever goes out to the public.

[CFord]

Originally Posted by gmarblestone

I was hoping someone else would get super into it and do this for me :).
But i am going to wait until things settle down a bit before bringing this up to anyone. Like you said... i am just venting. There is such a diverse community on here, maybe a congressman is reading this thread!

G

They can read?

[ka5txl]

Originally Posted by CFord

They can read?

I think that's what they have staff for.

[KaiserM715]

Originally Posted by KdLaneJr

I keep a larger portable gas generator on hand and exercise it several times a year, keep extra oil on hand for it and treat all the gas that goes into it with Sta-bil. I also keep all necessary power distribution cords located with the generator. The only thing I've yet to do is wire a junction box so I can plug the 30A output directly to my house loads after opening the main breaker to the utility.

This is one of the things I am looking into. I am up to the same point you are, getting the transfer switch. I have not really dug into what needs to be done to meet code.

Originally Posted by amadjuster

gmarblestone is a great representative of all the whiners I have seen being interviewed in Houston. I just hope they are not a true representation of the population there.

These people got out and helped each other clean up their yards of debris, checked on neighbors and kept other people's food in their refrigerators as not everyone had generators. ... I am ashamed of a lot of my fellow Texans due to their "me only" attitudes after this storm, which is one of the largest in history.

Some of the Houston population relocated from Amarillo. For the most part, people here HAVE been getting out and helping their neighbors (I know I have). That is all I have seen in my part of town (the Clear Lake area). And there are still folks without power (some without homes) here, too. There have been several stories on the news about how this has turned people who lived next to each other into neighbors and friends.

[Cope]

Originally Posted by KaiserM715

This is one of the things I am looking into. I am up to the same point you are, getting the transfer switch. I have not really dug into what needs to be done to meet code.

This link will give you some ideas. They recommend hiring an electrician, but the installation is pretty simple, and Reliance has a video on their website.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....10B/p1134.html

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/

This is a neat 3 way set up, allowing you to run gasoline, LP or natural gas.

http://www.propane-generators.com/a-c_kits.htm

[crazeazn]

i still dont have power.

[Joe N]

I am getting into this discussion a little late but I work for an electric utility company and would like to give you a few opinions from the other side of the fence. Electric utility companies are continually trying to find better and more economical ways to get power to its customers but the old tried and true practices most of the time have proven to be the best. Recently I was involved in a project that required rebuilding about 3 miles of an existing high voltage transmission line that went through the downtown area of a city. The city wanted the utility to bury the line because it was ugly so the utility did a cost study. To bury the part of the line that went through the downtown area, just a few blocks, was going to cost several million dollars more than the already high cost of the project. The city wanted the utility to do it regardless of cost but the PUC said since the line was existing it would only be put underground if the city paid for it. The city had no means of recovering their cost so they dropped their request. If they had gotten their way who do you think would have paid the additional costs? The customers would have paid of course. There are situations where underground is the only way but putting lines underground is extremely expensive and when they fail it is much more time consuming and costly to repair an underground circuit than an overhead circuit.

The electrical power grid is extremely complex and natural disasters have a way of finding its weakest points. Electrical power plants are located away from most areas and the power is fed to the customer through high voltage transmission lines. Those lines are almost always built above ground and so are exposed to the elements and sometimes are brought down by trees, wind, ice, etc. Most lines are overbuilt to compensate for natural disasters but you can't plan for every event. If the lines were built to never fall down then you would not be able to afford electricity. Even if your city suffered little damage it is possible you might be without lights because all the transmission lines feeding your city might have been damaged.

On that project I mentioned before going through the city, one week after we energized the new line a thunderstorm with high straight line winds passed through the area. We still had a section of the old line left in service with plans to move the distribution service to the new poles in a couple of weeks. The storm blew down 7 or 8 of the old poles that were still feeding part of the university system. Had we not already moved the transmission line to the new poles the city would have been out of power for a day or 2 but we never got any thanks from anyone for having upgraded our system to improve service to the city.

Something most of you don't know is that our government passed the Sarbanes-Oxley Act a few years ago after the Enron mess and one of the offshoots of that has to do with the amount of inventory a company can keep on hand without paying the government taxes on the material. Years ago utilities used to keep material on hand to help us respond more quickly when there was a disaster. Now there is very little material kept at the utility so when there is a disaster there is a shortage of material to restore service. You don't find poles and steel towers on every street corner so it takes time to get material. I have talked to more than one lineman who was frustrated because they wanted to help but couldn't get the material to do the work. Projects on the electric utility systems have slowed down or been put on hold around the country because of the thousands of lineman that have gone to the disaster areas to help out and because material is no longer available since it is being diverted to the costal areas. I don't think the government really meant to limit the abilities of the utilities to do their work but any time they pass a law there are far reaching effects that affect us in ways the lawmakers never thought about and there is always some group looking for ways to use a new law against a group they don't like.

I haven't even mentioned the safety issues either. Several lineman and other electrical workers will be killed during this restoration and all they were doing was to try to help get your lights back on. One of the many dangers they face is the improper use of electrical generators. An improperly installed generator can backfeed the electrical system and the line can be energized at 7,200 volts or higher. These guys are risking their lives so that people can have lights and air conditioning.

Tree trimming has been mentioned several times. The company I work for owns utility companies in 11 different states and I don't know the numbers but I would guess that their tree trimming budget runs over $100 million a year. Most utilities have crews trimming trees as fast as they can but they can't keep up. The trees grow faster than they can be trimmed and it is not true that the utility can cut any tree they want to cut. Most utilities try to get along with the customers and will do the minimum amount of trimming possible if the customer resists having their tree trimmed. You would be amazed at the number of trees that all of a sudden have some historical significance when you start to cut or trim it. Also there are any number of organizations that are looking for ways to file a suit against a utility company and if they learn that some trees are to be cut or trimmed they will gladly take the company to court which in turn delays the tree trimming.

The electric power system is extremely complicated and gets more so every day as our demand for electricity increases and as the government gets more and more involved in the industry. Has anyone paid less for their electrical service and found it to be more reliable since the government has started deregulation? A few years ago I heard one of our company VPs speak after he had just left Austin meeting with the PUC about deregulation and his quote was "It is not de-regulation. It is re-regulation." This is just a rhetorical question and not meant to open any kind of polital debate but "Has the government ever been involved in anything and improved its efficiency?"

I know many of you were inconvienced by the recent disaster and some of you may not have electrical service yet but all I can say is be patient. The utilities are working as hard as possible to get your service restored but they have to do it in an organized way. I have worked in a storm recovery situation, though nothing like you are going through, and it is amazing how people come together to solve the problem of recovering the system. It takes time just to survey the damage and work out a plan of recovery and then it takes a massive coordination of people to bring the workers and material together to put the system back together. It is frustrating when your neighbor across the street has power restored days before yours is restored but that is the way the system works. It is to the advantage of the utility company to get all customers restored as quickly as possible because the only way they can make money and recover any of the costs incurred during the disaster is to have customers buying their product again.

I don't think it is possible for the electric utilities to build a system with enough capacity and redundancies to prevent all outages but if they did build that system it would mean that most of us would be without electricity because we couldn't afford it.

[Jeff_Green]

Thanks for the response, Joe. It is a welcomed look from the "other side". I hope others are able to read this and understand it isn't as simple as "just fix it so it doesn't happen again".

[gmarblestone]

Joe,

I understand there is a LOT involved and i guess power out for 7ish days every 20 years isn't that bad. I just thought the 90% failure seemed large in any industry, but i have become more understanding of the process and hurdles. I am glad we got some good discussion and i really thank you for your lengthy well thought out post.

Grant

Originally Posted by Joe N

I am getting into this discussion a little late but I work for an electric utility company and would like to give you a few opinions from the other side of the fence. Electric utility companies are continually trying to find better and more economical ways to get power to its customers but the old tried and true practices most of the time have proven to be the best. Recently I was involved in a project that required rebuilding about 3 miles of an existing high voltage transmission line that went through the downtown area of a city. The city wanted the utility to bury the line because it was ugly so the utility did a cost study. To bury the part of the line that went through the downtown area, just a few blocks, was going to cost several million dollars more than the already high cost of the project. The city wanted the utility to do it regardless of cost but the PUC said since the line was existing it would only be put underground if the city paid for it. The city had no means of recovering their cost so they dropped their request. If they had gotten their way who do you think would have paid the additional costs? The customers would have paid of course. There are situations where underground is the only way but putting lines underground is extremely expensive and when they fail it is much more time consuming and costly to repair an underground circuit than an overhead circuit.

The electrical power grid is extremely complex and natural disasters have a way of finding its weakest points. Electrical power plants are located away from most areas and the power is fed to the customer through high voltage transmission lines. Those lines are almost always built above ground and so are exposed to the elements and sometimes are brought down by trees, wind, ice, etc. Most lines are overbuilt to compensate for natural disasters but you can't plan for every event. If the lines were built to never fall down then you would not be able to afford electricity. Even if your city suffered little damage it is possible you might be without lights because all the transmission lines feeding your city might have been damaged.

[mdparthum]

Good comments Joe.

[Joe N]

I apologize for that long post but the electrical power system is a very complicated system and there is no way storm recovery can all be explained on a forum in 1 post. It is kind of like taking someone that has never even held a camera before and trying to teach them all about a Canon 1Ds MkIII or a Nikon D3 in 5 minutes - a bit overwhelming.

Believe me, utilities want to restore power as quickly as possible but there are a lot of factors hindering that restoration that the public nevers hears about. Sadly there are too many inefficiencies and too much wasted time during recovery but all in all electric utilities do a pretty good job of getting the lights back on.