What would you do.....

[BigJon]

Sorry so long...

Well, today on the way back from the Ranch I came across a motor vehicle collision. Now they are really common in my neck of the woods, I was an investigator up until last November, usually 6 or more a day. Sorry, back to the question. This collision was between a school bus and a pickup with a trailer. The bus was on its side, and the pickup was twisted and its trailer on its side. Emergency workers, Fire/EMS/DPS/County Sheriffs, were on scene and a few people had stopped to lend aid. So here is my question would you stop and take a shot or two for the local paper or just for your own portfolio? Let me lay out a bit more, the local paper is in distress with the economy the way it is, so selling the photo would more than likely be out of the question, maybe more of getting your name out there. Would be neat to have your name in print I think. Now I had my 50D with my 100/400 on coming from the Ranch, shot some birds and stuff, so I could be out of the way and snap a couple shots from afar. I think I read somewhere that if you are shooting from the bar ditch you had to have a reflective vest or something of that nature.

Now let me add this, about 3 weeks ago I came across a scene in the roadway while leaving Eden Texas; lots of DPS Troopers, some local PD units, and a few Sheriffs from a couple counties. The area was roped off with Crime Scene tape but traffic could still pass. Parking lots around the area were open and public, state buildings. After reading the paper the next day this is where some San Angelo PD units and DPS units had chased a Murder suspect out of San Angelo across Tom Green County and into Concho County and then into Eden before they stopped. Upon stopping the suspect shot a Trooper and then was killed. Side note, the Trooper was fine, bruises, vest and belt saved him. Now I had passed maybe 10 to 15 minutes after the fact, passed many units responding while I kept driving home. No photos of the incident were in the paper, to my knowledge the CSI photos are all that were taken.

So this is two incidents that I have come across in about a month, both photo worthy. Would you have stopped and taken a photo or two? What if any legal requirements are there for shooting from the roadway or private property parking lots open to the public, public property lots? Now I don't mean to debate trespassing laws, I would never go jumping fences or up into areas where this would be an issue, being a land owner I totally understand how it feels to be violated in that way. I know when I was an Officer we had to sign a release for the PD, so that the Paper, TV station, and any other place or person that might snap our photo was automatically releasable by they Department.

[CaptainTom]

This is not a simple question. But I'll offer a simple and very personal response.
I keep my camera gear and a safety vest in my car. If I come upon a scene, I'll park safely and take a few shots from afar. If it is possible, I'll approach the respondents, identify myself and see what their response is. I don't ask permission. Permission will get denied more times than not.
I don't get in the way. I don't risk my own safety. It's not that important to get a photo unless it's a Pulitzer candidate.
If asked to stop shooting, I put the camera down and try to find out what the objections are. If the objections persist, I try to negotiate a location that would be acceptable. Quite often " where can I get my work done, and not be a problem to you" will get an answer, and then I comply completely. I have no wish to cause a problem. Unfortunately the image of a photographer as "paparazzi" has given us all a black eye in the eyes of many people.

[Truckman]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

I keep my camera gear and a safety vest in my car.

That's not a bad idea, the vest that is...You might be more likely to be allowed on the scene with a reflective safety vest lettered "PHOTOGRAPHER" on the back...I think I'll have one made up...Ben

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by Truckman

That's not a bad idea, the vest that is...You might be more likely to be allowed on the scene with a reflective safety vest lettered "PHOTOGRAPHER" on the back...I think I'll have one made up...Ben

Ben,,, try search first.

then you can find this thread

[Truckman]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

Ben,,, try search first.

then you can find this thread

I wake up in a new world every day...Thanks Tom......Ben

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by Truckman

I wake up in a new world every day...Thanks Tom......Ben

I suffer from two distinct maladies.

CRS

and

OTD


OTD ---- old timers disease

CRS ---- can't remember shi#

[RadarPing]

I have worked in public safety since 1981. I may be able to give some pointers here. I will not get into a freedom of the press or right and wrong debate here. You wanted suggestions or guidelines and I will try to help. You can take it with a grain of salt if you so choose.

• If you arrive at a scene before responders PUT YOUR CAMERA DOWN AND HELP ANY INJURED PEOPLE! It's the right thing to do.

• Do not become part of the problem. Stay heads up and don't get yourself run over. If you are asked to move please honor the request. You will not win a roadside debate. Never cross scene tape unless you have specific permission or have an official escort. If there is no scene tape barrier, do not go past the police cars, fire trucks or ambulances to enter the scene unless invited. If they have to divert their focus from patient care or scene investigation to deal with you, you can face criminal charges.

• Having a vest that says "PRESS" or "PHOTOGRAPHER" does not give you a back stage pass. If you are wearing a vest like that you are representing yourself in an official capacity. Be prepared to show bona fide credentials showing affiliation with a legitimate news organization. The reflective vest just helps you to be seen and does not grant special access to a scene. Act professional and do not "ooh & ahh" and gawk.

• Do not drive around emergency vehicles to get to a scene. Park well away from the scene with your flashers on making sure your vehicle is not impeding traffic. DO NOT drive over over any fire hoses. If you have to park on the grass turn your engine off. Oh and for Pete's sake do not park your car in the aeromedical Helicopter's landing zone. (Yes, its happened)

• Do not go to an incident with the intention of capturing graphic blood / gore photos. You will get run off for sure.

• Do not intentionally capture photos that would harm the dignity of any victim or decedent. Imagine your loved one or child being traumatically injured and someone wanting to publish their picture for a few bucks or to make a name for themselves. Reverse the role and use some sensitivity. If you are seen standing over someone snapping away, all you will do is enrage family members and cause more stress to a victim. Most officers will turn their backs while you are getting your butt whipped by an irate family member.

• Any pictures you take are considered "discoverable" and you can be put on the stand in a court of law. You have now made yourself a material witness. You may have to provide your own legal counsel to represent you in court.

• Every traffic accident is a crime scene. Even the minor fender bender. That piece of debris you are standing on or kicked into a ditch is evidence. Do not do anything that would alter any scene. Bring nothing in and take nothing out. You will be charged for altering a scene or hindering an investigation. You will go to jail for collecting souvenirs from any scene.

• Let someone know if you see a suspect fleeing a scene or suspicious activity.

• Do not dispose your trash at ANY scene. This includes wrappers, soft drink cans, coffee cups or cigarette butts. Do not smoke on a scene.

• Be cautious of taking pictures of specialty services such as narcotics, SWAT or bomb squad personnel. Often times there are undercover officers who's lives or family members lives may be in jeopardy by identifying them. If there is any questions please ask the Public Information Officer (PIO) before publishing the photos. Please use care with any photos which may help a thug circumvent any tactics procedures you may see in operation. They want to go home tonight too.

Some personal observations here nothing official but real world:

Just use some common sense. Once you become familiar to police, fire and EMS personnel, and they see you as a professional and you gain their trust, things will become more relaxed and you may even have the chance to get some shots that others may not. Most will come up to you and talk to you about details. If you approach a scene like sneaky Paparazzi not only will you get the boot you will find the scene lines getting farther and farther back when they see you arrive. There are photographers out there who respond to calls and grab pictures of accidents so they can sell them to insurance companies. They are considered ambulance chasers and will be kept at a distance. The police know the game too. The last thing you want to do is become known as a P.I.T.A. They know when you are trying to get a shot of a dead body to sell to the Mexican television stations and you will get run off in a hurry. Remember the dignity thing here. If you capture a cool shot of an officer, firefighter or paramedic doing their job, print it out and drop it off at the station. They will appreciate that and that goes a long way. We all have own personal blooper reels. (you know you do too) It's appreciated if you not publish the nose picking shots...lol

Tom, most of your advice is pretty sound. Asking is the best approach. Remember your courtesy goes a long way and when things settle down chances are they will let you into a scene to get what you want. Most officers will not have a problem with you taking overall scene photos. If you walk into a scene acting like you own it or trying to get by with something you will be turned away. If you become hostile you can be detained in the back seat of a patrol car until they have time to deal with you.

BigJon: I have personal knowledge of the Trooper shooting you mentioned. One thing you must be hyper aware of is any officer related shooting is going to be ultra sensitive with photographs. Attempted Capital Murder of a peace officer is going to be handled totally different. Expect to be immediately challenged and be denied access to that scene. I'm not trying to be rude, condescending or arrogant but Its just the way it is. The Trooper was shot at point blank range with a sawed off 12Ga shotgun and in defending himself had to take the life of another human being. Yes, he walked away from the incident, but I can promise you he is not "fine". Someone tried to kill a family member and everyone on that scene is going to be on edge so be very, very aware of your actions, comments and remarks. My best advice there is to just keep driving unless you are witnessing the event in progress and call for help. You will know the right thing to do at the time.

Like I said,I will not get into any shoulda, woulda, coulda debates about this. These are some rough guidelines from my many years in the streets. You may want to check with your local authorities and see if they have policies, laws or ordinances governing press and official identification. YMMV

I hope this helps.
~Joe

[mjdmike]

Excellent writeup and advice Joe. Thanks for taking the time.

[Coelus]

Good post Joe.

[CallMeAl]

Excellent response Joe. He gives good advice. Remember...every victim is someone's family member. Would you want strangers coming to gawk at you or your mother, for instance, if you were the one injured or killed? Showing a little respect and dignity at the scene goes a long way and won't interfere with getting good photojournalistic photos. It also goes a long way with your reputation with the emergency personnel on scene.

[CaptainTom]

If you are serious about PJ work you need to consider joining the National Press Photographers Association (NPPA). There is a code of ethics and guidelines that you agree to follow.