Question for pilots/choppers concerning safety

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

OK here is the situation yesterday at Jazzfest in New Orleans:

After lunch a large oil service style (12 or so passenger helicopter-type that ferries crews to oil platforms in the Gulf) shows up at Jazzfest and then promptly starts to fly directly over and hover over the crowds to (I assume) shoot video/film of the scene. He was, I would estimate, as low was 250 ft above crowds of over 10,000 people at the Acura stage and over 5,000 at the Congo Stage and also doing passes sideways slowly over the whole fest which had probably over 35,000 people in it. The height estimate is based on the height of two airplanes who circle outside of the fest at 500 ft (the planes were safe as was the DTV blimp who was at 700+ ft).

I have shots of him with tail # and showing him over the fest.

Now didn't he just violate a lot of FAA rules?

[Cornbread]

No, he didn't.

[kenw]

imho, height doesn't really matter: if it falls, it falls all the way.

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by Cornbread

No, he didn't.

Correct !!

Sec. 91.119

Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

CaptainTom added 2 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by kenw

imho, height doesn't really matter: if it falls, it falls all the way.

Actually this concept does not apply to rotary wing aircraft. Adequate altitude would allow the pilot to more safely go into auto rotation.

[RKEnnis]

He probably didn't break any FAA rules.

FAR 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

So, unless the FAA issued a notice to airman (NOTAM) restricting flight operations for this specific event (per FAR 19.145), he was within the law.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...%20restriction

[utdbear]

It doesn't appear there was a TFR in the area so he is probably OK. I would imagine if he was at that low of an altitude he's probably shooting for the event which probably would be OK even if there was a TFR in place.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Would love (photography forum) to see (photography forum) some pictures you got (photography forum) of the helicopter over the event (photography forum)...

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Joe I will get them up later today- I'm putting up the event as it transpired and I am at about noon now and that happened at about 3pm, so give me till about 1;30 TODAY TO GET that far. Just go to my Jazzfest albums www.pbase.com/pgkps and go to Sunday 2009.

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by RKEnnis

He probably didn't break any FAA rules.

FAR 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

So, unless the FAA issued a notice to airman (NOTAM) restricting flight operations for this specific event (per FAR 19.145), he was within the law.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...%20restriction

wish I had said that 22 minutes earlier.

[RKEnnis]

Uhm, yeah. That's why I edited my post right after I originally posted it - I saw that you had already posted the FAR.

Like I said, I must have been sitting on the "reply" form page when you posted your message (it took me a while - I got distracted).

I'm just glad you aren't being a real prick about it. Er, well...

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

wish I had said that 22 minutes earlier.

[RIDDLER STUDIOS]

Share the air :-)

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by RKEnnis

Uhm, yeah. That's why I edited my post right after I originally posted it - I saw that you had already posted the FAR.

Like I said, I must have been sitting on the "reply" form page when you posted your message (it took me a while - I got distracted).

I'm just glad you aren't being a real prick about it. Er, well...

I'm glad you're OK, cause if I wanted to be a real prick about it I certainly am capable.....

[RKEnnis]

A fact you have amply demonstrated, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

I'm glad you're OK, cause if I wanted to be a real prick about it I certainly am capable.....

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

OK I just posted the first couple of pics of the chopper over the fest grounds, he actually went lower than the first pics show, I'll be adding some more later today but have to make a seafood run for dinner son won't be on line for at least 1/2 hour.

BTW RIGHT BEFORE that is a great shot that I grabbed of Dave Mathews outside of his tourbus- earlier I have a shot of 4 of the 7 tour buses that were at that stage, across the fest another stage had 4 of these tricked out coaches-we is talking $1Mill+ each!!!

So I have a clear shot of his ID # and I still think he put too many people at risk because that stage that he is over which he then passed over the crowd had a LOT of people covering an area of about 400x1200ft packed solid with people! You can look at some of the crowd shots from Acura on Fri and Sat and get an idea and those were smaller crowds-they went all of the way back past the back row of portalets.

DEMDeepEllumMusic added 2 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below


This is as the chopper first flew in, I was behind the Acura stage by the high dollar tour buses and the chopper proceeded to fly lower as he got closer to the stages.

DEMDeepEllumMusic added 4 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below


OK they are shooting out of the open door here, I also have a shot of the other side showing the full tail #

[Cornbread]

Era Helicopters

Lake Charles, LA 70606
600 Airport Service Road (Physical Address)
Lake Charles, LA 70605
Toll-free: 800 655 1414


Just talked to their customer service rep. They had all the proper clearances.

Got anything else to be a sourpuss about?