Microsoft vs Apple...

[Sonny]

PLEASE lets keep this civil or I'll come to your house and kick your a$$!

I am curious. It seems as though MS is making a huge push to win back customers with the release of Windows 7. Of course we all know about Vista. Let's not .

So far Windows 7 is getting great reviews and feedback (even in the beta versions) from their RC version. I started testing with Win 7 (build 7000) to Win 7 RC (build 7100). To be totally honest...this OS is beautiful! From the very first time I installed Win 7 (build 7000), it has given me less problems than Win XP Pro & Vista Ultimate. Yes, I did say Win XP Pro.

But is it too late? Has MS tarnished their image beyond repair? Will Win 7 save the day? Will it bring back customers from the dark side (Apple) . If it does, will Apple still make those hilarious commercials?!?!?

I wanna hear your thoughts, but remember...you friggin yahoos keep it civil. OR ELSE!

[midlight21]

I'm still running XP Pro because I was and still am afraid of Vista. I can't afford to have a system crash on me because I have so little time to fix problems. If Win 7 is stable and continues to get great reviews, I *might* try it out. If I hate it, I'll probably be switching to a stable version of Linux....not Apple.

[Triana]

Apple is the better product, MS is cheap. You get what you pay for.

Their reputation? They ruined that long ago (anyone remember ME?), it's not about coming back it's about surviving. I am running XP still because I refuse to even touch Vista (we had it on one machine at work and it wouldn't run any of our applications so we could never "upgrade" if you can call it an upgrade). We're eyeing 7 with suspicion.

I use to own Macs exclusively. I still have a G3 that runs OS 7.5 just as well as it did when it was new. I have 8 and 9.1 on it as well, but I usually run 7.5. I did buy a PC mostly because of games, I admit, but also I was taking computer hardware classes and I wanted to build one on my own. But next computer will be a MacBook and I can't wait. Probably next year when I can afford it (and this computer will be gone). There's just things I hate about MS and their instability.

As far as "bringing people back from the dark side", there is no dark side, only different stuff. Apple does some things *amazingly* well. PCs do a lot of things too. But it's getting to be the difference between Nikon and Canon now. It's just a matter of what you like and what you want to run.

I've played with Linux some, but not enough to become overly proficient in its use, though I'd like to be. Maybe some day.

[Cajungaltx]

Despite the fact that I'd like to beat the crap out of some Window's folks when my pc has an issue... I don't think we are in any danger of becoming an 'Apple' world anytime soon. The company had some great growth over the last few years... like over 30% growth or so since the first part of '07.

But they dropped considerably since then... just this past year...from the 1st Quarter in 08, to the 1st Quarter in '09 - they dropped market share by 1%...

Acer, Toshiba and HP saw double digit growths in their market share...

Fortunately - they have the IPOD & the IPHONE to cover the issues...

They don't see any reason to compete with the lower end pc's... and that's a huge block for mostpeople.

Spend 2K on a PC and get a seriously rocking PC... spend 2K on an Apple... and you get a decent one... if you get lucky.... lol...

[texkam]

OK, everyone repeat after me.......LINUX. Resistance is futile. LOL, forgive me, I'm in a nerdy mood tonight.

[Whumbahcumba]

I much prefer MS due to the availability of parts and software. It's so much cheaper to build a MS system than it is to build a comparative Mac system. As far as stability goes, I've only had a couple problems with my 4 year old system (all of which were fixed with a reboot), while my dad has his MacBook Pro's HDD lockup within two years and render the laptop unusable. Sent it off to get it fixed, it was returned and ended up breaking again. Sent it off again, returned and broke again. Sent it off and got a new system since Apple couldn't solve the problem.

As far as "ease of use" that depends on what you are used to. I find the Mac system very hard to navigate around in and that it does some screwy stuff that it shouldn't. I also don't like how you exiting a program doesn't necessarily mean you exited it. I currently run XP Home with no problems and I wouldn't mind running Vista. It just takes some tweaking to dumb it down and make it more user friendly than it originally is set up as.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Originally Posted by Triana

Apple is the better product, MS is cheap. You get what you pay for.

Their reputation? They ruined that long ago (anyone remember ME?)...

Wow, these statements are incredible (and I'll just leave it at that as I had to edit this sentence no less than 11 times).

Microsoft will continue to be dominant for many years down the road. Each time they've stumbled, they've come back stronger and Windows 7 continues that tradition. Look at the aggressive timeline for release, the open access to the builds, the incredible quality of each release. They've obviously learned from Vista and are doing things right. Look at Win7's "XP mode" and how critically important it will be for Microsoft to stay dominant in corporate America. Windows 7 will shatter records.

Now I have no issue with Apple. My iPhone is truly one of the greatest pieces of technology I have ever owned but Apple has never had the nads to take on Microsoft where it really counts and until they do, they'll never be anything but distant spec in Bill Gates rear view mirror. That out of the way, anyone who doesn't appreciate all that Apple brings to the computing world just doesn't understand it. It's everything Microsoft isn't. Grace, beauty, technological art. I can't remember the last time I didn't look at something designed by Apple and go "WOW!".

But don't kid yourself. It's Microsoft's world, Apple's just living in it.

Joe

[LWimages]

Originally Posted by Triana

Apple is the better product, MS is cheap. You get what you pay for.

Are you kidding?
Have you purchased retail versions of either OS?

Actually Vista costs more than Leopard, and yet Leopard is the better product.
Although, most people don't know it, because they get it as part of their PC purchase, and comes as OEM for most motherboards and hard drive.

[kula23]

I am using Linux for net, emails, chat, games, etc. But for editing photos, I used window xp. not big fan of vista. I don't think i will ever go vista or window 7 later on but plan to buy apple later on this year I hope! Window 7 is wannabe linux. lol

[Imagebuffet]

Thanks for the report, Sonny. I'm glad to hear that Win 7 is working so well! That's amazing! I've used MS products for the last 20+ years, and my impression for most of that time is the MS uses customers as unwitting beta testers. Their software always seems buggy until at least the first service pack to two.

I've used Macs off-and-on over that period, too. I used to be impressed with their slick operation, but now I guess my expectations have risen. I had to use Macs for my Photography class last year, and I hated them. I can't fault computers for failing in a classroom that gets a lot of use, I guess, but even when they worked as designed, I didn't like the design.

I've tried using Linux several times, too. After about a decade, I gave up. Maybe it would be better, now, but I don't have the time, resources or interest to experiment with it. I even changed my major from Computer Science to Business Administration.

[ovimo]

Originally Posted by Cajungaltx

Spend 2K on a PC and get a seriously rocking PC... spend 2K on an Apple... and you get a decent one... if you get lucky.... lol...

Hmm, I must disagree. I did spend $2000 some 18 months ago on a custom-made XPS Dell PC. It is rockin' ... but only on paper: quad-core 2.4, 4GB RAM, etc. It works OK on dual boot Vista and XP Pro. It rarely crashes, but it ALWAYS uses a minimum of 40% of the 3GB RAM it recognizes (OS limitations it seems).

Then I got an iPhone. Hmm, interesting technology. Then I borrowed a MacBook. Hmm, more interesting technology.

So I ran some tests, you know, home made ones, nothing scientific. My quad core PC, my dual core Dell XPS and my MacBook. I had one image suffer a series of changes in NX2 and Photoshop. The XPS dual core took some 30 seconds for each. The quad core PC (also a Dell XPS) took some 25 seconds for each. That is with nothing else going in the background, no antivirus, etc. I turned off everything I could b4 the test.

Then the MacBook. It ran circles around both the other ones. It took some 8 seconds for the NX2 and some 10 seconds for the Photoshop. Dual core MacBook. Very intriguing.

So I decided to try some printing. I have a large format HP that is not supported by Vista, so I have to print from XP - no real big deal. But I have to calibrate the display, load the drivers, look for color profiles, test the accuracy of the colors, etc. Prints come out superb.
So I connected the MacBook to the USB port of the HP. First time ever, right? And what the @$#%&&*$#@ ?? It already had the printer profiles, the color profiles, everything else. I did NO calibration, and just hit the "print" button. And it came out superb, perfect color match, just like the one from the PC, but with so much less hassle.

Do I need to say that my next desktop will be a Mac? Whenever I can afford it.

And BTW, a mini Mac dual core with 4 GB of RAM costs some $1300. A MacBook with similar config is some $1700. A iMac will get you out $2300 (but you also get the 24" monitor). And the Power Mac dual quad core with 8GB of RAM, 512 MB video and dual 1TB hard drives will empty your bank account at $4200.

[ptrd]

I see this question posed various times throughout the year on all the forums I frequent.

I'm an avid MS user just because I've been using it most of my life (with the exception of the Mac's we had to use in elementary school through high school).

I do believe Mac's tend to work better because everything is "limited" in the sense that Apple controls everything. Sure everything is going to work better when everyone is the on the same page. I applaud Apple for doing that. I love their hardware. But that limit is a double edged sword.

With PC's / Windows, since everything is more "open" there is more chances for innovation to work it's way in. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. It just means more things have to talk to each other and be able to work for older generations or differences in vast amounts of hardware. Does this make things hard and causes headaches??? Sure. I for one have never really had any major issues or even small issues in the past 10 years.

I'm not the most technologically advanced person either when it comes to this stuff but I can build my own pc and get it to work w/o errors 99% of the time. Sometimes when I hear new Apple converts talk to me with their concerns and why things are the way things are, I'm just perplexed. For the most part, their concerns are not my concerns or I can get around it. Some people don't want to go that extra step and make it work, that's fine.

All I know is I can do everything I need to do on my laptop that I need to do. Photoshop cs3? Sure works for me, I guess I don't edit 1200 images every week but for the few I need, sure works for me. Gaming? All the old games I love to play still work and some new ones. Internet surfing? Sure, my pc is clean and never had a virus.

BTW did I mention I'm on Vista Ultimate and have really never had a problem? I don't see why everyone says they have compatibility issues, everything I hooked up worked fine. The only exception is I can't get my Xcom game to work (seeing as it's probably a 20 year old game now).

What really got me going was in college awhile back. This is a side story to the actual topic but I think it's what pushed me over the line.

Everyone had a laptop in college, this is fine. One day in class a guy who always normally sits around me got a new macbook. He opens it up and it's all nice and shiny. Then he leans over to me and says " Dude why are you still messing around with your laptop...you should get a macbook". Now I thought he was joking but I guess he was really being serious. I asked "why?", just to hear what he had to say. Up until that point I hadn't really cared, whatever works for you works for you. He started to say all these things which really didn't apply to me and the professor walks in. Class starts and they guy leans over again and goes "Ummm can I look at your laptop for the slides, I don't have Office installed..." I just chuckled inside.

Obviously he could have gotten it to work if he was a bit more inclined too but just the smuggness or attitude about it just really rubbed me the wrong way. From then on I went slightly over the fence about Apple and their users. I chalk it up to fanboy-ism which every group has their fair share. Just like the whole Import cars vs. Domestic cars, charmin vs cottonelle, etc.

Sorry for the super long post but I'm bored :)

[h00kemh0rns]

Originally Posted by Sonny

So far Windows 7 is getting great reviews and feedback (even in the beta versions) from their RC version. I started testing with Win 7 (build 7000) to Win 7 RC (build 7100). To be totally honest...this OS is beautiful! From the very first time I installed Win 7 (build 7000), it has given me less problems than Win XP Pro & Vista Ultimate. Yes, I did say Win XP Pro.

I agree with this. I too have downloaded the beta versions from MSDN for work. Stability issues seemed to have improved. Though it's still too early to say they are fixed.

Originally Posted by Sonny

But is it too late? Has MS tarnished their image beyond repair? Will Win 7 save the day? Will it bring back customers from the dark side (Apple) .

This is probably the most important question from your post. Here's my take from both someone who uses MS products @ work and home, works for Dell, and will be purchasing an Apple MBP.

• MS will retain a good portion of their customer base simply due to lower costs associated with their product loaded on PC's as compared to Apple products. You can't move their base b/c you have the "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" pool here. They are the steadfast MS lovers simply out of necessity or refusal to try something else.
• MS will lose a small legion of MS users due to the frustration levels with the stability of the O/S. This is happening now but how big is unknown. If Win7 flops like Vista expect this small amount to become a significant percentage of users to look elsewhere.
  • The biggest hinderence in the face of a recession is cost. Apple is in a prime position to strike at MS, not to mention PC makers, where it hurts and gain market share in the Consumer space. Vista is a flop, XP needs to retire, and Win7 is a ways out. The problem with this is Apple is more of a boutique computer maker. They have a significantly higher price tag for their products.
  • Now, if Apple wants to bring over new users and make a strike into MS/PC heart's they would need to have an entry level machine(s) and/or rebates with prices that would sway those on the fence. The idea being that once you get someone to switch and if your product is superior in the minds of these new users then you have 'em.
• On a personal note I'm switching b/c I'm frustrated with Windows. My frustration now far out weighs the reasons to stay any longer. I've given MS enough of a chance to keep my loyalty. The reasons I stayed as long as I did was b/c:
  • Ease of use/tribal knowledge between releases - I know how to lift up the hood and work behind the scene's on any Window's O/S platform. Makes it alot easier to stay with something you know.
  • Cost - Not necessarily with the cost of the O/S but the fact I would need to pay the cost difference of switching camps to Apple from PC.

Originally Posted by Sonny

If it does, will Apple still make those hilarious commercials?!?!?

Apple marketing guys are genius. How many Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, etc commercial give you the kind of brand recognition as any of the Apple commercials? Even if Win7 is a true hit bet on the fact Apple has a counter punch waiting and it will be delivered in the form of new commercials.

[pippin]

Originally Posted by texkam

OK, everyone repeat after me.......LINUX. Resistance is futile. LOL, forgive me, I'm in a nerdy mood tonight.

ha ha.

Hubby runs Windows under Ubuntu.

Don't know why, but I think he's just plain crazy. Nope, I stand corrected - he's mad. That is his initials after all - M.A.D. LOL. I'm literally married to a MADman hahaha

If I could afford it (which would be never) I'd get a fully loaded Apple system. But I can't, so I stick with windows. I too was scared of Vista, but I was given a full legit copy of Vista Ultimate from a friend and I've not had any issues. Aside from Internet Exploder crashing when I close it, I just use safari ha ha.

My current notebook (which I use 100% of the time since my husband turned my desktop into file server for me, and it's easier to proof from a notebook than a desktop when you're photographing horses and such on location) cost me $750. 17" screen, 4gb ram, 200gb hard drive, Nvidia graphics card. Given me no issues since using Ultimate, but home premium just annoyed me for some reason. Don't really know why though....

[Flea77]

Working in the industry for more years than I can count I have seen all this before, several times.

Apple makes excellent equipment, as does the PC side (if you buy comparable quality parts), most of the people I meet daily try to compare a $500 PC to a $1500 mac and that is where things get interesting.

As for Vista, I use it exclusively at home on my PCs, and 10.4 on my Macs. I can run anything I like and I choose Vista. 90% or better of people I meet who do not like Vista either don't like it because they don't understand how to use it, have an innate fear of change, or blame hardware vendor's lack of drivers on the OS (just like they did coming from DOS to 3.1, 3.1 to 95, 98 to 2000/xp). Every single user I have had sit down on a reasonable machine and showed how Vista works has loved it.

As for problems, in our shop which at any given time has 20+ machines on the bench, 95% are XP machines. Of course XP has a larger market share than Vista, so that makes sense. What is interesting is that the XP machines are usually far more infected, far more destroyed, far more difficult to repair than the Vista machines, as a general rule (assuming we are not talking about hardware failures). Yes, we get Macs too, generally hardware failures, sometimes corrupt OSs, sometimes compatibility problems.

What all this says to me, and YMMV, is there is no perfect PC with any OS, a well built machine with Vista (an example) is better than a el-cheapo machine with XP and will have fewer problems, and the difference between Mac and PC are largely marketing.

I get far more done with Vista than I did with XP which makes it a worthwhile investment on my part. And just for your info, no, Vista has never once even burped on any of my machines, runs flawless.

Apple has some issues that prevent it from getting any traction in the business world. Take the iPhone for example (yes, I carry one, 3G 16G). Try sorting your contacts by company, not happening. Try opening Office documents without some convoluted self-email stuff, not happening. Try importing your accounts from Outlook when one sends via a mail server which is using a self-signed cert, not happening. My Blackjack (MS OS) never had any of these problems, of course it also had no touch screen and all the cool features of an iPhone either, heh. Apple and MS both have areas they need to work on.

Allan