Rant number 23 sec. 14 pp 3-5

[CaptainTom]

This is a rant. If you don't want to read it, now is the time to move on to another thread.


I am trying to make a living as a photographer. I work 24/7 so I can pay the bills. I love what I do.
What I get upset about is when well meaning people post a thread about how they are having a bad time trying to shoot their neighbors friends cousins wedding/portrait/pet/jewelry. They don't have a clue what to do, and even worse, they don't have a clue what NOT to do but they are "in the photo business" and expect to be paid.
Why should I be concerned ? I don't know any of the parties involved. They don't live in my neighborhood, so they aren't taking business from me.

What they ARE doing is lowering the level of respect for photography and photographers. If they are going to present themselves as professional photographers by having business cards, websites, and charging for their services, they need to have a basic knowledge of the craft, and a basic understanding of proper and legal business practices.

I also get upset when other well meaning people who have a comfortable day job and photography is their hobby, start flaming me for being harsh to these so called professionals who are helping to ruin the craft. Sure, they may be great photographers, but they haven't had the fun of trying to anticipate if they can pay next months rent with their portrait or wedding bookings.
If I am harsh, so be it. It is a harsh world where those who want to be professional photographers need to know the reality and not just some candy coating that is designed so as to not offend anyone.

I will freely give advice. I will freely be sarcastic. I will be me.

I will read all the replies to this rant, but I won't get into a .........ing contest with y'all.

[JohnT]

I think (think = don't quote me on it) it was Joe McNally whom I heard say that this has always been a problem to some degree or another, but the digital revolution has made it worse. He didn't have a remedy unfortunately—probably because there isn't one.

[AndrewCCM]

Tom...

I am one of those that have a day job...but also a photo/media business (11 yrs and counting).

Just wanted to give you a thumbs up (especially for the "I will freely give advice. I will freely be sarcastic. I will be me.") Gotta say.. I closely resemble that remark. :)

[CaptainTom]

I used to play in a band called "Don't quit your day job".

We all had good day jobs and our music was a lark. (although, I played in a band for ten years in NY, I am no longer making a living doing it).

I wonder if we pissed off any of the other bands that were in the area, especially when we went to Europe to tour ???
Maybe there was a rant posted on the musicians forum...

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

I used to play in a band called "Don't quit your day job".

We all had good day jobs and our music was a lark. (although, I played in a band for ten years in NY, I am no longer making a living doing it).

I wonder if we pissed off any of the other bands that were in the area, especially when we went to Europe to tour ???
Maybe there was a rant posted on the musicians forum...

I resemble that remark too. Was a full-time musician in early 90s... Then moved on to "part-time"... Hung it up in 2000. HOWEVER, just a couple of weeks ago I broke down and bought me a nice Mesa Boogie Lone Star Special amp and broke out the Les Paul Custom for the first time in nearly 10 years..

[bondarnes]

Scratch hard enough on the surface of almost any photographer and you will find a musician. I played trumpet in high school and college and started college as a music major. Piano proficiency exams changed my major to photojournalism. I haven't looked back.

I feel your pain. When I came into the photography business in nineteen-hundred-and-none-of-your-business it was expected that you would learn your craft and then go into business. Now the norm is to buy a consumer level DSLR with a kit lens and go into business and learn your craft at the expense of the clients. Forums like this help some few to get better, but for the most part only exaserbate the problem.

[Debbi]

OK, Tom. I had to laugh at your title but I knew what it was going to be about before I read it. I was feeling for you yesterday as it seemed like "pick on Tom day". You have always given good advice and sometimes harsh is best, even when it doesn't want to be heard.

I do have a good day job and have played around with "professional photog" but am constantly trying to learn/improve my craft and I still have a lot to learn. I also have no intention of giving up that day job, although in these times that decision could always be made for me.

Don - I'm not in that "almost any photog" category. Not a musical bone in my body (altough I do like it). I have been painting and sketching for more than 20 years - does that count?

Bottom line, keep doing what you do because you are good at it.

[janetg]

tom - i agree with most of what you said. i may not be the best photog around the block so to speak, but i have spent uncounted hours doing what i do, and learning how to get from point a to point b. i have gotten to the point, where i refuse to answer phone calls from some of my friends, because i KNOW it's going to be a stupid question they should already know the answer to - they just CHOOSE not to learn, because it's easier to ask someone. i have people that want to borrow my equipment, etc. they send emails with links to things they THINK they should buy and expect me to bless it. it goes on, but i digress.

i take it from the post above that someone was less than happy with some of your answers or replies to something.

I was feeling for you yesterday as it seemed like "pick on Tom day". You have always given good advice and sometimes harsh is best, even when it doesn't want to be heard.

however, there is a fine line between being a harsh critiquer (is there such a word?) and just being rude and snarky. unfortunately, the nature of THIS forum is that it is for people that are hobbyists and those that are professionals. there are other forums available (pro4um) that are pay only, and you don't get 'wannabees', only serious in business folks where photography is their only means of income and they are GOOD at it.

anyway - keep up the sarcasm, i particularly love it, but remember the fine line at all times - it's part of being a good business person and will not contribute to the lack of respect for the true professionals out there. that being said...i admire both your work and your experience and the advice.

peace!

[Shelby Lane]

Originally Posted by janetg

however, there is a fine line between being a harsh critiquer (is there such a word?) and just being rude and snarky. unfortunately, the nature of THIS forum is that it is for people that are hobbyists and those that are professionals. there are other forums available (pro4um) that are pay only, and you don't get 'wannabees', only serious in business folks where photography is their only means of income and they are GOOD at it.

Yes, there are other forums, but I do completely understand Tom's frustration with being called out for telling someone [paraphrased] "if you don't know the answer to that question, you're not ready to be in business." That may not be the most recent cause for this rant, but it's the one that I saw right after TX School.

I realize that this is a public board and a non-pro one at that. But it is frustrating (to put it mildly) to see people who say "well I'm not really a professional and they should know it" who are advertising themselves as a portrait or wedding photographer on their websites and taking money for what they do. If you are charging money, even as a tip, you are in business. You do owe taxes. You do need insurance. You are expected to know what you're doing before you take money for a job.

Tom, I only saw one flame at you, because I avoid looking at threads where people are in this situation. It's bad for my health. But I have to say: Amen. I know y'all want this to be an encouraging place, but while there is a time and place for pats on the back, there is also a time for honesty.

[janetg]

shelby - i don't have any specifics about tom, i honestly don't pay that much attention. i was just remarking on the 'picking on tom day' comment.

and yes it is incredibly frustrating, but it is not limited to the photography profession. there will always be people that are trying to make a buck and are extremely under qualified for what they want to do. it is nothing new. back in the day they were referred to as snake oil salesmen. the internet has just made their opportunities to sheist people out of money so much more effortless.

my point was, those same people that are in business but not REALLY in business are always going to be around - dime a dozen. and no they wont' have insurance, and they won't pay taxes, etc. but there is nothing anyone of us can do about that. what we can do is be professional at all times, be a step above them, then not only will our work continue to be nothing short of professional, the manner in which we conduct ourselves will be above reproach. how many times have you said to yourself - i really like ...so and so..but he's a complete arse! (not saying you are tom, i don't even know you - just using that as an example).

[Big T]

I think Tom likes playing King of the Hill, but, If you want to do something Tom, take all your anger to the state and insist that they have a state License for Professional Photograhers and require insurance, if not anyone can do it, no training, no classes needed, now thats something that will make a real change, if not, being self appointed Photo Cop and verbally hammering people that are just starting out as a hobbyists and some that are trying to go to the next level and become a paid photographer, is just pounding you chest in a very small sand box and won't do any good at all exept run alot of people away from this board, so take it to the state if you want real change. just my .2

[Debbi]

Originally Posted by Big T

I think Tom likes playing King of the Hill, but, If you want to do something Tom, take all your anger to the state and insist that they have a state License for Professional Photograhers and require insurance, if not anyone can do it, no training, no classes needed, now thats something that will make a real change, if not, being self appointed Photo Cop and verbally hammering people that are just starting out as a hobbyists and some that are trying to go to the next level and become a paid photographer, is just pounding you chest in a very small sand box and won't do any good at all exept run alot of people away from this board, so take it to the state if you want real change. just my .2

I don't think you know Tom at all. He has given some VERY helpful advice since I have been on this forum. He has also given critique when asked - but unfortunately a lot of people just want "good job" as a critique. I don't do this full time and no intention to do so but I too get frustrated when someone is asking what equipment is needed to shoot a wedding AFTER they have already booked one. I've tagged along on weddings, second shot and been the primary but before even agreeing to do a free tag along, I knew what I needed to bring to get the job done correctly. Just my .02.

[ggeen]

No complaint about the rant here. I'm an amateur...photographer, radio operator, just about anything.

[janetg]

well, i certainly don't want this thread turned into a tom bashing thread - he does not deserve it.

i'm just saying if people bother to reply to 'those' threads, be professional above reproach - and viola, they will either get really bad advice..or perhaps some good stuff.

another way to look at this, is, would you really want their clients in the first place? i mean, it's painfully obvious if they hire someone who can't pour pi** out of a boot with directions on the heel - don't they actually deserve to get that?

[Digigeek]

Hey dude, if you think your profession has a low level of respect, try doing what I do - practice law! The huge influx of night school grads, etc. has made our profession a mess as well. But, as with most things, the cream rises to the top.

Maybe we can trade jobs for a day? Oh wait, my wife has seen my photography and won't let me do that!