Old Hollywood glamour

[texxter]

Today Tammy came to the garage studio to do some work together. We did some basic business stock images first, and then we spent the rest of the time trying to get some old Hollywood style images. I can't say that I am thrilled with these images, but it's another step towards mastery!

Because the old Hollywood glamour masters used very shallow depth of field with tungsten light and 8x10 negatives, I decided to also use tungsten light and shoot wide open at f/2.8. The key light was a 10 in fresnel with a 250w tungsten light. There was also another fresnel as hair light on some of the shots. The pattern on the background was created with a home made cardboard cookie. B&W conversion with Silver Efex and I also used Focal Point to further tune the depth of field.

Constructive critiques and comments welcome.

-Paco

#1. I wanted to emphasize the strong jaw lines, hence the shooting from below.


#2.


#3.


#4.

[HotHolly]

cool. #2 is awesome. the neck shadow in #1 is a little too thick imho. #4 is neat too, but the hot spot b/t her arm and her body is too bright, its busting up the flow of your awesome composition.

[texxter]

Holly, thanks so much for commenting. You're right about the triangle of light on #4, it's a distraction, and I have taken care of it. On #1, yes, the shadow is pretty strong and well defined - in the 30s and early 40s, this was common. For example, this lovely portrait of Frances Farmer by Hurrell, or this sexy one of Rita Hayworth.

Much appreciated!

[popawalker]

I think you've got a decent start here Paco.

[texxter]

Thanks, Steve, I appreciate the encouragement. I have to say that it's hard to get close to that magic look of the 30s with current equipment and 35mm - much of the glamour came from the hand retouching of beautiful 8x10 negatives and the camera/lens used. While I can use fresnel lamps to approach the light, I can't quite get close enough to the original look. It's fun to try though!

Here is the last one I'll be sharing from this set, this time with less toning.

5. Except for the black and white conversion and the resize/sharpening/copyright, the image is pretty much straight out of the camera. The halo of light is produced by the large fresnel on white seamles, cranked to medium flood. This is not a digitally produced vignette, but the pattern of light on the background. Shot at 1/30 sec and f/2.8 with the 70-200mm at 80mm.

[bondarnes]

Something is wrong. I'm not sure if it is in the capture or the post, but the whites of the eyes shouldn't be so gray.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

Something is wrong. I'm not sure if it is in the capture or the post, but the whites of the eyes shouldn't be so gray.

i couldnt put my finger on it before, but that was it. agreed.

i love this era. im glad you are posting stuff. :o)

[texkam]

Thanks for sharing. My 17 y.o. daughter and I really enjoyed these. She's into vintage. She needs some gloves like those.

[texxter]

It could be that I didn't retouch the eyes or whiten the whites, as it's common practice today. When I look at her whites on a perfectly well exposed image, they are gray.

[texxter]

Thanks, Mark, I'll ask Tammy where she got her gloves

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

I like #3 and agree on the eyes (do some clean up in post)
#1 I would like to see a tighter crop on it
#2 The light on her left shoulder is just a bit to much-tone it down just a bit in post
#3 Can't quite pin it but you almost nailed it, I think the face may be a bit too hot (other than the eye thing)
#4 To me just way to soft on the drop off and the wall behind her left shoulder is just too hot.

Your getting real close and it comes down to just little things like using some barndoors to feather a light source or fill in at a spot with a tube and many of those Hollywood shooters for the studios used a LOT of lights to get those Press Kit shots. They would get a stand in to set the shot up and then bring in the subject after they got the set up perfect.

[texxter]

Paul, thanks for taking the time to comment! I need to work on the post-processing, as some of the suggestions you point out have to do with post.

I found this shoot today quite challenging, and now that I had time to look at the images and assess the session, I wanted to share my challenges and learnings, in case you want to try to shoot in this style.

First, heat is an issue. Today was a hot day, and with three hot lights, the garage was very very hot, not just for the model, but for me too. I think I will wait until the cooler weather after the summer before I try to work with hot lights again.

Second, the lights had no dimmer, so I was limited in my ability to control ratios by moving the lights. If I ever invested in my own fresnel (instead of renting old ones) I would get dimmers for better control.

Thirdly, and very important, I had to use a tripod, and this greatly reduced my mobility and ability to direct the model, change positions quickly, etc.

So in a perfect world I'd like to shoot with continuous lights that are not so hot, and allow me to shoot hand-held without requiring massive amount of power with their corresponding heat dissipation. Dedo lights and HMI fresnels are nice and totally out of my budget. The other option is to use modern strobe fresnels, but I am not sure I can get f/2.8 with them.

Oh well, I am interested in any experience you've had with lighting techniques and tools to achieve this look. I've some research on the internet but can always use advice from those with experience doing this type of work.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

You are so right that these continuous hot lights do throw out a lot of heat on the model, the photographer and the set/room and I bet that the Holly,wood glamour photographers had fairly large spaces to shoot in where the lights were not real close in to the subject or like I said they used a stand in (same complexion/hair color and style and maybe even similar look to the subject to do the set up) and then let the set cool down -lights off- until they brought in the subject to do the final shoot while you were working all with just the model. Also like I mentioned they probably had all sorts of scrims and barndoors that were not available for you to use at this shoot.

No one ever said that to get a great shot is easy and people do find out what it takes.

Maybe you will want to use a mix of hot lights and strobes in another attempt before the fall?

[texxter]

No one ever said that to get a great shot is easy and people do find out what it takes.

I am the first one to recognize that it takes hard work to get great results, and that's why I force myself, on a regular basis, to do things I have never done before. But it's not enough to just try to do something once or twice. It takes quite a bit of experience with the technology, the techniques, and the approaches to get great results. I have very little experience with fresnels - In fact I have only used them twice, the first time strobe fresnels, and this time the modeling light of a strobe fresnel. Here are some of the image in this style since I started trying in late 2006

Introverted, Old European glamour, Old Spanish style, Pensive on the chair, Elegance,Strobe Fresnel,... all of these are done with strobes and grids, and I realize that they miss the mark because the depth of field doesn't quite match what was done back in the 30s. Also, the quality of shadow transfer that fresnels provide is missing as well. Hence my interest in fresnel hot light lamps, which bring a whole set of new issues!

Maybe you will want to use a mix of hot lights and strobes in another attempt before the fall?

Well, I think that I will use either strobes or continuous lights, but I am not sure that using both helps, it may actually create new problems, in addition to the old ones. I understand that there are fresnel strobes with great degree of adjustment, unlike the old Norman 800 ws power packs with the F10 heads, which give you either 200ws, 400ws or 800ws. I dont think the Profoto fresnel are available for rental, but I may be able to find Comet ones - if I can shoot at f/2.8 with not heat and keep the ability to achieve the fresnel quality of shadows, I'll have solved most of my problems.

Thanks for thinking about this.

[mmuhlenkamp]

I really like the lighting and composition in these, but I think her hand looks a little awkward in #2. I think if you do some more post on these you could really get a lot closer to the hollywood look (or close enough to look cool). Handtouching still takes time and it's a lot of subtle things that add up. Smooth the skin (but not plasticky), whiten eyes and teeth, cleaning up little imperfections.

Look forward to seeing more!