Fire and Metal

[Rocket]

Greetings all. I'm trying to compose a photo that contrasts faith and the inferno, and have so far failed miserably.

Here's the setup: I used black posterboard for the background. On a stool, I placed a granite tile covered with black posterboard and then a glass pane on top. The stool was placed against the wall on which the posterboard was mounted, and I used a small bit of lighter fluid about 4 inches in front of the cross (which was propped against the posterboard on the wall).

Equipment was a tripod mounted Canon Rebel XSi with a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 lens. Photos were taken at 1/100 sec, f3.5 with ISO 800. I did not use flash, but upon reviewing the EXIF info it looks like I left the WB in flash mode. I manually focused with the light on in the room, but light were out while I shot. It looks to me like I got the focus wrong, but I even set a small bottle where the flames would be (a few inches in front of the cross) and focused on the smallest readable type on the bottle.

I'm not sure if I am up against a physical limit with my camera as ISO 800 is as high as it goes. My lens is good, but I'm not sure I have enough DOF at 3.5 to get the entire scene in focus. It seems like using a slower shutter speed would only make the flames more blurry.

The first photo is framed as I would like the final edit to be. The second photo shows a bit more of the setup, and you can see the glass and the border where the glass meets the posterboard. The cross is silver, but looks gold from the reflected fire. My first thought is to get the scene further away from the background so that it is darker.

I think the concept is good, but the execution on my first try was terrible. Any helpful critique/advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Marty

[TheRandomPhotographer]

hey Marty, awesome idea!!

if you can try moving the background out of the shot, doing this will give the cross more definition as there is only black in the background and find a really darkroom. for the noise reduce your ISO to something like 400.

expieriment with a longer shutter something like 1/10 or longer on shutter priority, you may be pleased with the results. oh and the WB is fine the colors is what makes this shot. you may need to fab up a stand for the cross if you cant get it standing on its own. also you may want to try to suspend it above the flames with fishing line to create a Heaven and Hell look

i usually draw out my scenes, if i can, to get an idea of what i want. So i drew this

:)

[Rocket]

Thanks for the tips, Ryan. I'll try to get it set up again soon and give it another go.

[SJHester]

Marty - I have no real good advice, but I really like your concept. Please post future attempts. I agree with Ryan, don't worry too much about the WB as the colors make the shot. If you go with a longer exposure, you might (might being the key word) try adding a flash, maybe at 1/16th power and indirect, it might freeze the flame.

But remember: There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line

[LongRoadHome]

I don't know if this will help.
I shot this on a tripod, ISO 800, 1/160, f/1.8 IIRC, I ended up setting the EV -4. I would suspect your flames are a factor of x10-50 times brighter than the cross, If you want to get flame definition and the cross lit, I would think you've got to get some "spot" light on the cross--maybe a flash/snoot? As suggested, I'd move the background way back, then try to keep the flames and cross in the DOF. Maybe move the cross within an inch of the flames. I like the reflection of the flames--maybe have the cross standing in a "pool" of flames?

[Lexie]

I don't have any "how to" suggestions, but I too like the concept here. Keep posting your results.

[Redneck]

I don't quite understand why you use your highest ISO setting. Both images are overexposed with lots of unusable white. I'd set ISO down to 100 and use a shutter speed of 1/100s with f/3.5. That should turn out better exposed with less noise.

[Rocket]

Sorry for the delay guys ... I haven't had much time for shooting/editing lately. I appreciate all the advice/comments and although I don't have a prize winner to show you, I think there has been improvement from the first try.

Setup was similar, with the following changes:

1) Moved the scene a couple feet out from the black posterboard background.

2) Used 50mm f/1.4 lens.

3) Made an ornament hanger out of a wire clothes hanger and suspended the cross a few inches off the surface.

4) I used a small flashlight as a spot on the cross.

I believe the DOF was good, but the shutter speed was not fast enough to freeze the flames. Fire is so unpredictable ... I had to shoot dozens of photos to get 2 or 3 fairly good ones. These were shot at 1/80 sec., f 7, ISO 400 with White Balance on Auto. I'll probably try again with some different settings when I get some more time. I have Photoshop Elements 7.0 and used the clone tool to remove the outline of the wire hanger ... I think it might help it I paint it black before the next attempt.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Any further comments and/or advice? Instead of a black posterboard background, should I use some black material from a fabric store? It would certainly give me more room if I have a larger subject (not planning on setting larger fires, though). Do you guys know of a manufacturer that makes a small, variable angle spotlight with a dimmer (in order to accomodate different size subjects/distances)?

Thanks again.

- Marty

[TheRandomPhotographer]

Hey marty you did a superb job on the reshoot!!!!

you see all it takes is a little practice and some constructive criticism!

:) Keep at it and you will be making stuff like this allllll the time

[ka5txl]

Marty, it looks great. I like #3

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

If you are trying to pick up the texture on the cross try moving the set up even further from the camera and go with an 80mm or even as high as 120mm. You can move that black background even further back from the cross so that it falls under the bokeh of the lens (good reason to have a 110m prime that opens to 2.0 or faster) and you won't get the random pattern from the fire that shows up on all three shots (or is that your support frame?).

Also may try burning alcohol for a blue flame, (high % rubbing alcohol or even sterno) or try some other liquids to see what sort of flames that you creat-may even add some powered metals that burn to creat other colors not normally associated with flames.

Don't think just macro for the shot!

[LongRoadHome]

I like the redo #3.

[humminboid]

Good work! The reshoot is much better. I like #2, but #3 is close.

[Ducky]

I think the theme, faith and the inferno, is better demonstrated in the first two shots. The smooth texture of the cross and the reflections of the flame fit the theme better. I do not like the cast metal texture showing in the second series. That makes it look like what it is, a photo of a cross.
I do like the suggestions of testing other fluids for flame color.
Overall, a fine concept, well thought out. Nicely done, I'll look for your final results.
What it your intended use of the image?