Shooting inside a cavern

[srdanz]

I'm planning on taking my family to the Inner Space Caverns tomorrow. I've read that they welcome cameras, but do not allow tripods.

Any suggestions on how to make decent photos without a tripod? I'll crank up the ISO to 1600, shoot in raw, take the 50mm f/1.8, (although I'd like to try the 8mm @ f/3.5 as well if possible)?

Did anyone visit these caverns? Is the tripod really that hard and fast rule? Any other suggestions for shooting inside the caves?

Thanks in advance!

-Serge

[JamesB]

I have not been to inner space, but at the Sonora caverns they dont allow tripods, I asked if I could take my mono pod and they said no.

so I took my cheap $9 window mount. I attached it to the hand rail and got a few decent shots that way. other times I have just rested the camera on the hand rail.

I know Natural bridges let me take my tripod in one time.

they dont want people taking tripods and mono pods because they dont want some one to have "extra" reach to damage formations.

James

[CaptainTom]

Use high ISO and steady hand. NO TRIPODS at Innerspace.

[srdanz]

Thanks for the replies. I'll try to keep a steady hand and find some props to lean on while shooting. How about low-power fill-flash with a diffuser?

[Roy]

Nice shot Tom! Flash or no flash?

I dropped a lens cover in the caverns there about 18 years ago for my 35mm SLR film camera just in case you run across one. It was pitch dark or I would of found it.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

One other reason that they don't want people to bring in tripods is the time delay factor of you setting up your shot and keeping up with the group.
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/...ods_com_review
Now there is one idea that you could try. There is a technique of holding your elbows against your body to create a tripod effect. Well you could have a short pole-about 18 inches with a rubbber base which you hold against your sternum for stability- nothing touches anything but you. So you hold your breathe and use your arms as stabilizers to the side.
I don't remember if this is a wet cave system or dry one, right now with the drought it may be dry anyway, but if there is moisture on the formations they will reflect a lot of light anyway. Maybe beg borrow or rent a higher powered flash unit? IF possible get a second flash for your spouse to hold and remote fire it-the more light spurces the better!
http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/showcave/photo.html
http://www.ljudmila.org/jkz/caves/ This guy is in eastern europe,spelunker
http://www.blackrabbit.com/cave101.htm aimed more to film than digital
Looks like we need to take a whole crew of people into a private cave in the hill country area and shoot
http://www.museumca.org/caves/onli_photo.html shows how properly placing remote flash units can really do great.
So we need a generator and fuel-also about 3,000+ ft of extension cord so the generator can stay outside and not impact the cave., some radio freq remote firing units, some studio strobes, or take a bunch of remote flash units and a whole bunch of batteries along with the radio triggers, a bunch of human power to lug this all down and about 14 hours underground.
http://www.cave-pictures.com/index.htm
you can really see the challenges of cave photography here-this guy really needs some post PS work.
http://www.ephotozine.com/techniques....cfm?recid=117
Very informative
http://www.robertcoomer.com/gallery/Caves This guy did a multiple exposure of himself in a cave.
Now I know who bids on those flashbulbs on E-bay!
http://www.darklightimagery.net/flashbulbs.html
This guy talks about a lot of the formations
http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/virtcave/virtcave.html
http://www.weatherfriend.com/travel/...hotography.htm
This guy has been into Inner Space and really liked it.
http://www.pjcaver.com/sidgallery.htm#

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

If you want to speak caver here is a list of lingo
http://www.umsl.edu/~joellaws/ozark_caving/caveslng.htm

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

One of the sites said the wider angle the better so take the 8, also if you have an off camera flash unit don't necessarily aim it directly forward, aim it to the side and let the light bounce, also don't shoot faster than 125, heck since it is digital and if the tour isn't crowded fire off a few slower than you think you can hold it still-1/8 1/4 or slower and just try to hold it still.

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by Roy

Nice shot Tom! Flash or no flash?

I dropped a lens cover in the caverns there about 18 years ago for my 35mm SLR film camera just in case you run across one. It was pitch dark or I would of found it.

I tried a few with flash but the flat lighting just didn't make it come alive like I wanted. I got a few keepers, but a lot of shakey shots too.

[srdanz]

Thanks to all again - I did not have the time to peruse all the links, but wil eventually get to them (probably tonight to figure out what all I did wrong:-)
Here is one I took today, w/o flash, leaning against the railing. Not perfectly steady, but OK nevertheless (I think)

[engstrom]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

I tried a few with flash but the flat lighting just didn't make it come alive like I wanted. I got a few keepers, but a lot of shakey shots too.

Tom, did you try bouncing the flash behind/to the side? Seems like that could create some interesting effect. Oh yeah, and obviously try to get as much ambient light as possible.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Really it looks like if you want to shoot a cave you need multiple flash units that are triggered off of a wireless system or like one link above had you cover the on camera flash head with a red gel and that should put off the light to trigger remote flashes that have an optical trigger while not throwing light as much light out from the on camera flash, or maybe put on a big difuser on the on camera unit but still using remote units.
(So take a big group each with a flash unit to hold and point at various formations which you trigger off of your camera).

Anybody know of a decent private cave so that you are not rushed through by the guide? I know there is a big caver community in Austin, or there was, because of a lot of caves in that part of the state.

[rcoomer]

Cave photography requires either a lot of light (which is why we use flashbulbs) or long exposures.

In most tour caves, your photos will have to depend on their lighting, so a mini tripod can usually be carried in a pocket and steadied on a rock, rail, or on the trail. Most tour caves may also be limiting for multi flash shots unless using optical or radio slaves, but they may not like all the flashes going off and possible complaints from other tourist. Most of my shots use open shutter flash, where I open the shutter in total darkness, and then have team members fire the flashes manually within a several seconds. Always on tour lights would make this dificult to impossible.

An off camera flash and cord will let you get some nice macro shots if you can get within range of formations without touching them. 1-2 million candle power halogens can work well too, but again will require longer exposure times.

There was an article on tour cave photography in a 2005 issue of the newsletter I edit, The Electric Caver:
http://www.gcgcavers.com/pdfs/ec200505photo_issue.pdf

If you are serious about finding a cooperative cave to take photos in, consider posting in the cave photography section at the NSS website:

http://www.cavechat.org/

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by DEMDeepEllumMusic

If you want to speak caver here is a list of lingo
http://www.umsl.edu/~joellaws/ozark_caving/caveslng.htm

It appears they have the definition of "spelunker" incorrect. Comparing "spelunker" and "caver" in MW Dictionary, they are interchangeable.

Just an observation.