What am I doing wrong???

[Ross]

Ok, so for some quick and dirty 1st - time practice doing sports photography, i was behind home, field level at a local Little League game.

Why is this kid's arm so "noisy" or whatever that is ???? something wrong with what i'm doing, or is that just an out of focus arm or what? Some professional help is needed. This is a 100% crop of small part of image first, then whole thing 2nd.. Shot in RAW, used Photoshop CS Cam Raw to convert to jpg (used all default settings, chnaged nothing.


1/1600 sec. f/4 (wide open) ISO 400
Lens used = 28-105, zoomed at 40mm




Full size original can be downloaded here: http://www.pbase.com/rosstomson/imag...2/original.jpg

Thank you in advance! I'm trying to practice for the upcoming Houston Astro's meet :)

-Ross

[SandShark]

I'm not a professional, but I looked at the full-sized image at your link. Maybe it's just me, but I'm noticing noise in other parts of the image, as well. The umpire's shirt and pants, the outfield wall, the trees, the infield turf and dirt, and the catcher's right arm and uniform.

You say you did nothing to the image? It wasn't underexposed and you, perhaps, adjusted the exposure in PS? That's all I can come up with at the moment.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by SandShark

Maybe it's just me, but I'm noticing noise in other parts of the image, as well. The umpire's shirt and pants, the outfield wall, the trees, the infield turf and dirt, and the catcher's right arm and uniform.

You say you did nothing to the image? It wasn't underexposed and you, perhaps, adjusted the exposure in PS? That's all I can come up with at the moment.

No, I did not touch anything in photoshop. i had everything set to as it was shot settings -- it is a touch underexposed, but i did not compensate...

it's baffling to me too. -- It was overcast, and rather low lighting -- i do not know if those two would effect it that much, but i just won't think so. And yes, the noise seems to be everywhere.... I have noticed this type of stuff with all pictures I've taken with the camera ... i just don't know if its me or the camera.

Anyone ... ?
-Ross

[LoungeLizard]

ISO 400 will have some noise, but it shouldn't be that much on a 20D. I'll let the 20D users chime in.

Why were you using ISO 400? Was it because it was in "sports mode"?

[bburton]

Ross,

For what it's worth, I downloaded your original bmp file and ran it through Noiseware once: it cleaned right up: hitter's arm, umpire's shirt, etc. I'm assuming therefore that your pic does have noise. Now, for what's caused it, someone more qualified than me should advise you.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by LoungeLizard

ISO 400 will have some noise, but it shouldn't be that much on a 20D. I'll let the 20D users chime in.

Why were you using ISO 400? Was it because it was in "sports mode"?

I shot this picture in Aperature Priority Mode (AP). I was using ISO 400 becuase it was too dark outside. To get high shutter speeds, I had to set the ISO up to 400, and i was wide open on the f-stop.

Yeah, i did not think a 20D should be this noisy either... hmmmm.

-Ross

[Ross]

Originally Posted by bburton

Ross,

For what it's worth, I downloaded your original bmp file and ran it through Noiseware once: it cleaned right up: hitter's arm, umpire's shirt, etc. I'm assuming therefore that your pic does have noise. Now, for what's caused it, someone more qualified than me should advise you.

Bruce, i see. just to test i ran it through noise ninja and it really helped it, but it just shouldn't be this noisy, i wouldn't think. Thank you for doing that though.

For clarity -- The pics above were NOT edited at all -- no filter, no noise reduction.

Thanks Bruce,
Ross

[suzyjazz]

I'm certainly no expert, but it looks noisier than it should be to me as well, from my little experience. I also see noise in other areas of the photo. To me that looks more like ISO 1600, maybe 800 after being lightened a little. Can a camera have a problem with noise? Seems like I usually hear about other technical problems. Have you noticed noise with any other lenses?

Suzy

[Ross]

Originally Posted by suzyjazz

I'm certainly no expert, but it looks noisier than it should be to me as well, from my little experience. I also see noise in other areas of the photo. To me that looks more like ISO 1600, maybe 800 after being lightened a little. Can a camera have a problem with noise? Seems like I usually hear about other technical problems. Have you noticed noise with any other lenses?

Suzy

Suzy,
I have no clue if the camera can have a problem with noise?? I have noticed noise with my other lenses (including the kit lens and a 75-300). Check out my pbase -- then hit the originals on a few pics -- the bluebonnets were done with the Kit lens -- things like Steffie gallery were done with this 28-105.... and in the Random gallery - the Bird picture was done with the 75-300. All are lower iso's, either 100 or 200 and all show noise, more than I would think it should.... but i just don't know if this is something i'm doing or what?

-Ross

[jeffkohn]

Underexposure (even slight) will increase the likelyhood of noise, even at moderate or low ISO's.

That said, if you have to examine a 100% crop on screen to see the noise then frankly who cares. You'd get worse grain from ISO 400 film. Try printing an 8x12 and see if you can actually see the noise, I bet you won't be able to.

[bburton]

Ross,

Again, for what it's worth...I downloaded two shots from the "Steffie" gallery, one at ISO 100 and another at ISO 200. Noiseware had no perceptible effect on the ISO 100 shot and slightly more effect at ISO 200. I think the first one you took with the 20D of your Mom was at ISO 100 and had almost no noise.

So, not unexpectedly, your camera has more noise at ISO's above 100. The question then is: Is the increase normal for this model camera? Maybe, you could go to PBase camera data base and download a number of pics from the 20D at various ISO's and then compare your camera's perfomance at the same ISO's? Just a thought?

[HighPlainsDox]

Originally Posted by Ross

1/1600 sec. f/4 (wide open) ISO 400
Lens used = 28-105, zoomed at 40mm

I'm just a rookie, but I've heard that way too fast shutter speeds for the film, can do this. You were shooting ISO 400 at 1/1600 sec....4x the ISO.

I don't know myself, but this is what I've heard.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by bburton

Ross,

Again, for what it's worth...I downloaded two shots from the "Steffie" gallery, one at ISO 100 and another at ISO 200. Noiseware had no perceptible effect on the ISO 100 shot and slightly more effect at ISO 200. I think the first one you took with the 20D of your Mom was at ISO 100 and had almost no noise.

So, not unexpectedly, your camera has more noise at ISO's above 100. The question then is: Is the increase normal for this model camera? Maybe, you could go to PBase camera data base and download a number of pics from the 20D at various ISO's and then compare your camera's perfomance at the same ISO's? Just a thought?

Hmm.Well at least that makes me feel a little more confident that it is probably just exposure stuff. Especially b/c the Steffie picture and the one of my mom were both verywell exposed becuase they were taken in bright bright daylight. These little league pics were taken low lighting, higher ISO.

I will compare, as I compare more and more I see more and more grain in pics from others that are slightly underexposed, etc. More comparison is needed i think. But THANK YOU for the tests on my ISO 100 and 200 pics.

-Ross

[Ross]

Originally Posted by jeffkohn

Underexposure (even slight) will increase the likelyhood of noise, even at moderate or low ISO's.

That said, if you have to examine a 100% crop on screen to see the noise then frankly who cares. You'd get worse grain from ISO 400 film. Try printing an 8x12 and see if you can actually see the noise, I bet you won't be able to.

Yes, I think underexposure might do this to some degree.

Yeah, i understand the whole 100% thing, but the real question is -- is this NORMAL for the 20D or is this worse than other 20D's. I probably will not see it when printed, but viewing them on the computer is mainly what I do.

Thank you,
Ross

[HT]

Hmm.. Don't know what to say. I wish I had my camera with me. We could test out the lens with my 20D and see who the culprit is.