Calibrate moniter and printer

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Does anyone have some practical advice on calibrating your moniter, how does that work with your printer, the printer where you send out for printing and so on. I would hate to spend $100 to $300 on hardware to do this and find I had just wasted my money and time.

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Wops!
Just read the message below, but I really do not understand what they are talking about

[jeffkohn]

Calibrating your monitor with one of the colorimeter-based tools available is well worth it if you want accurate color. After all color-correction and other post-processing tasks are going to be difficult if your monitor isn't displaying the image accurately. The new Eye One Display 2 is supposed to be very good.

For printing, things get a bit more tricky. Getting extremely accurate prints is actually quite difficult, especially if you want to do any B/W printing. There are several "levels" of accuracy in profiling; which one suits you will depend on how much time, efforrt, and money you're willing to put into it. Here's a quick rundown:

Canned Profiles - Most printer manufacturers offer profiles you can use when printing on the same manufacturer's papers. If you're sticking with OEM papers this might be worth a try, but the accuracy of the results will depend on how similar the color reproduction of your printer is to the one the profile was produced on. Additionally, some 3rd-party paper manufacturers such as Red River and Ilford also offer canned profiles for the more popular printers.

Scanner-based Custom Profiles - This approach lets you create custom profiles using a scanner and some profiling software. If you already have a scanner it's a pretty inexpensive way to try custom profiling since you just have to buy the software. The results are only average IMHO, and in many cases not much better than a good canned profile. You can get pretty good color this way with tweaking, but IMHO B/W printing is pretty disappointing.

Hardware-based Custom Profiles - This is the "real" way to create custom profiles. However it's not cheap, the "entry" level package would be the Eye One Photo at about $1200-1300. Unless you're really serious about getting high-accuracy prints on a variety of printer/paper combinations or just have money to burn, this option may be overkill. But the accuracy of the profiles is terrific, even B/W printing can be good (though B/W is still somewhat a matter of luck, I've found that the profiles for some papers end up being more accurate than others).

Custom Profiling Services - There are vendors out there who offer the service of creating custom profiles for you. Basically you print the test charts and send them to the company who will then create the custom profile for you using their high-end equipment. If you only use a couple of paper/ink combinations this can be an affordable way to get high-quality profiles.

The above all applies to desktop printing with your own printer. In the case of labs, some of the labs have created their own custom profiles which are applied automatically during the printing process, so all you have to do is make sure your image has the correct color profile embedded (sRGB is usually assumed if you don't embed a profile). In this case the lab will usually have a profile available for download from their website which you can use for soft-proofing. Additionally, Dry Creek Photo (www.drycreekphoto.com) has a library of custom profiles for various labs around the country that you can download. To use these you would need to convert your image to the target profile, and then save it without any embedded profile before sending it to the printer.

This may be more information than you were wanting, but color management is a big topic. :) If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Regards,

[LoungeLizard]

Originally Posted by jeffkohn

To use these you would need to convert your image to the target profile, and then save it without any embedded profile before sending it to the printer.

Jeff, I got lost on this part here. Are you saying I'd convert my image to the profile I download from Dry Creek? I would then save it without a profile and tell the lab to print it without applying a profile?

[jeffkohn]

Jesus,

The Frontier and Noritsu machines these labs use ignore any embedded profile and assume sRGB (except for a few versions of the Frontier driver that actually choke on an embedded profile :) ). So you want to _convert_ your image to the target profile since it won't happen during printing. For more info see here: http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Frontie...r_profiles.htm

Some other labs might actually be using Lightjet or Chromira machines, in which case the profile conversion might take place during printing. If this is the case the lab will no doubt explain this in their FAQ's.

BTW I just got back two 12x18 prints from West Coast Imaging and am very impressed. One was a color Chromira print on Fuji Crystal Matte paper, the other a B/W on their Epson with the piezography inksets on fine art matte paper. They may be a little pricier than Costco/Walmart but the quality is worth it IMHO. The prints were actually shipped flat in protective sleeves sandwiched between thick sheets of cardboard. The B/W in particular is just great.

[labguy]

for customers not wanting to buy a calibration device, we supply our customers a calibration print and a digital file to calibrate their monitors to our Chromira printer. this will get you really close to what is on your monitor and what you get on the print.

color editing is not really that simple. most people adjust to what they think is good and stop there instead of going further to see if it can be improved further. we edit all files unless the customer states to "print as submitted" over 90% of the time we can improve on what is supplied.

we used to have two price structures: one for customer edited and one where we edited. we dropped that and now edit all files unless stated otherwise. the reason being most people think they can edit and when they get bad prints they blame us. after showing them that the print matches the monitor then suddenly its not the labs fault. it was taking too much time and hassle to continue, so we edit now.

most people want to sit and edit for hours which is impossible without a reference image on the monitor. after 20 minutes your brain kicks in and plays tricks on your eyes. a green skin tone will look really good. with a reference image on the monitor, if the brain makes the reference print green, then edit the other files to look the same color (since it's not really green-just your brain saying it is) this will also give you consistent color throughout the same job. look at posted images and notice how the color and density shifts, there is no consistentcy, images are red, yellow, blue, dark, light etc.

most people don't do this because they don't want to give up a little bit of real estate on their monitor. also you have to use a CRT monitor, not an LCD the LCD is fine if you don't move your head. looking at an image at different angles on an LCD will give you differeent renditions of the image.

just a few tips that the pro labs use. hope this helps.

[jeffkohn]

color editing is not really that simple. most people adjust to what they think is good and stop there instead of going further to see if it can be improved further. we edit all files unless the customer states to "print as submitted" over 90% of the time we can improve on what is supplied.

I can see your point, and for a lot a people that may be the best route. I enjoy post-processing though, and to me it's part of the creative process so it's not something I want to hand off to the lab. I've got a pretty good grasp on color management and with calibrated monitor and printer I can get consistent prints at home, but only up to a certain size.

Your pricing for Chromira prints is very competive, I'll have to keep you in mind for next time. Can you print on both the glossy and matte papers? Do you offer pre-flight pricing for fine-art prints, for people who don't need scanning or editing services?

most people want to sit and edit for hours which is impossible without a reference image on the monitor. after 20 minutes your brain kicks in and plays tricks on your eyes. a green skin tone will look really good. with a reference image on the monitor, if the brain makes the reference print green, then edit the other files to look the same color (since it's not really green-just your brain saying it is) this will also give you consistent color throughout the same job. look at posted images and notice how the color and density shifts, there is no consistentcy, images are red, yellow, blue, dark, light etc.

I understand the phenomena you're talking about, there have been occasional times when I thought was happy with the color on a image only to come back later and wonder what I was thinking, but that's pretty rare. Most of my editing is for stuff like tonality, sharpening, B/W conversions, touchups, etc. With the calibration feature in ACR getting accurate color is not something I have to worry about much now as long as I get the WB correct (which in the case of portraits and other contolled scenarios is pretty easy if I remember to take a WhiBal shot). The idea of keeping a color reference image on-screen during editing is a good one though, I'll have to remember that.

[TxLerman]

I realize this is an old topic, but it is my current problem so forgive me for bumping this topic up. I have a couple of questions. (1) Has any one used Colorvision's PRINTFIX Suite? It is a hockey puck sensor for the monitor and a scanner for the printer. (2) What companies or websites provide custom profiling? It is mentioned in one of JeffKohn's replies, but they did not mention any particular businesses. (3) Is ADOBE Gamma as accurate as using a hockey puck sensor?