Best light for black-and-white?

[JohnT]

Since early morning and late afternoon/early evening light is considered some of the best light for outdoor color photography, what's considered best for b&w? Is it one of those "depends on the situation"?

[KJ Smith]

Its pretty much the same, its the angle of the light.

When you shoot B & W there won't be any color to distract the viewer, so you have to have stronger compositions.

Kevin

[Gordon]

The good thing is, you can shoot B&W landscapes at times that are totally inappropriate for colour landscapes. So once the sun's risen & the colour has gone, the shadows might be real good for B&W. The atmosphere and light will be too blue to make interesting colour landscapes, but you can still do good B&Ws, particularly with a good sky.

So you can certainly shoot great B&W in the early morning light, but also through the rest of the day.

So this colour one was shot, right as the sun broke over the mountains and started hitting the sand storm



While this one was shot after we'd 'given up' and were heading home, because the good light had gone:

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by KJ Smith

Its pretty much the same, its the angle of the light.

When you shoot B & W there won't be any color to distract the viewer, so you have to have stronger compositions.

Kevin

I would say if you don't have good composition it doesn't matter if it is color or B&W. The principles of compostion are netural.

Also in B&W to scale to tonal grays is just as important as color.

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by Gordon

The good thing is, you can shoot B&W landscapes at times that are totally inappropriate for colour landscapes. So once the sun's risen & the colour has gone, the shadows might be real good for B&W. The atmosphere and light will be too blue to make interesting colour landscapes, but you can still do good B&Ws, particularly with a good sky.

So you can certainly shoot great B&W in the early morning light, but also through the rest of the day.

So this colour one was shot, right as the sun broke over the mountains and started hitting the sand storm


While this one was shot after we'd 'given up' and were heading home, because the good light had gone:

Gordon, you hit here on the key to good B&W white work, range of tonality in the final print. People who have always used color don't often look at things as a range of gray and how to get that range in the image.

Color can give the viewer eye candy while B&W can make him see beyond the object.

[KJ Smith]

A little off topic: I read somewhere that David Hume Kennerly refused to shoot color in Vietnam. He said the country was so beautiful that it would distract from the reality of the war.

I think it holds true in a lot of ways. Photos can be all about the color, and less about the composition. But a B & W has to be about the composition.


http://www.kennerly.com/

Kevin

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by KJ Smith

A little off topic: I read somewhere that David Hume Kennerly refused to shoot color in Vietnam. He said the country was so beautiful that it would distract from the reality of the war.

I think it holds true in a lot of ways. Photos can be all about the color, and less about the composition. But a B & W has to be about the composition.


http://www.kennerly.com/

Kevin

At David Douglas Duncan's talk at the Ransom, he stated he did not use color like Larry
Burrows, Tim Page and others because a good combat photographer could make you see the color of blood in black and white.

[johnastovall]

If you are looking at doing much B&W you might want to look at the The JFI B&W Toolkit . It requires Capture One but I hear you can get C1 LE free with some SanDisk products. I'm going to get it based on Sean Reid's and others praise of it. It's only 15.95 and sounds like a great deal for that.

[KJ Smith]

Good links John

Thanks

[Duffy Pratt]

Thinking about it, the best photojournalism I remember from the Vietnam War is in black and white. It's interesting that the Hollywood standard for the war is the semi-washed out color that you find in newsreel footage from that time, as if the entire era has somehow faded.

While the general principles of composition may be about the same. color adds a different kind of contrast to a picture. When composing in color, you need to be aware of both luminosity contrast and color contrast. In B&W, the color contrast doesn't get picked up by the camera, and you either need to do something to bring it out, or compose around it.

With both B&W and color, one of the difficulties is that the camera "sees" differently than the eye and the brain.

Duffy

[Bruce M. Morris]

John,
In answer to the original question, I have always preferred LOW light for my B&W work. probably reading too many publications where they shot at night under streetlights or stadium lights and had to push the ISO to get any image. The B&W grain just seems to be more of a nightowl medium for me.

[KJ Smith]

"In B&W, the color contrast doesn't get picked up by the camera, and you either need to do something to bring it out, or compose around it."

I wish I could express my thoughts better. Thats is what I wanted to convey.
I also think you can use the color contrast to work around a weaker composition.

It is also my thought that if you could convert B&W to color it would hold up better more often than converting color to B&W, If that makes any sense.

Kevin

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by KJ Smith

It is also my thought that if you could convert B&W to color it would hold up better more often than converting color to B&W, If that makes any sense.

Kevin

I have actually found this to be true the few times that I've converted. If a color image had weak composition, it really became apparent once converted to B&W. The latter really forces one to work on his composition skills.

[AndrewCCM]

Interesting topic...

[KJ Smith]

"I have actually found this to be true the few times that I've converted. If a color image had weak composition, it really became apparent once converted to B&W. The latter really forces one to work on his composition skills."


I am a film shooter, I forgot that you guys can actually do that !!!


Kevin