Low light / no flash help (Also M mode in general)

[bradh]

Alright, I shoot a lot of events for my campus newspaper that require (or sometimes just courtesy on my part) to shoot with no flash in a low lit or poorly lit environment (for photos anyway.) My question is, I have been using a high ISO, 1600; a wide open aperture, 2.8ish; and the exposure time adjusted to the metering the camera, a 20d, is sensing while in Manual mode; and a lot of times even though the photo itself may seem clear there is actually a softness or blur to the details of the image.

I will post some examples of this when I get home, but I just thought about it at work because I had a shoot last night of a 'battle of the bands' type event. I shot with flash some, but otherwise was taking so many pics that I would rather not use flash on every single one of them, plus I would like to pick up on the colored lighting as opposed to some sort of fill on the subject and a subsequent shadow someplace.

This mainly occurs when I am doing a concert or some event where people are moving around more on a stage rather than, say, a static speaker at a podium. However, I still find issues with those as well.

Sometimes I find this to occur even when I am outdoors shooting in daylight, using a monopod, and with the same ISO 1600 and 2.8 settings... the details of the images sometimes seem soft and switching out between a cheaper Sigma 28-135 2.8 and my nice 70-200 2.8 doesn't seem to make much difference in this area of error.

Is there something I should be doing different and/or do I need to wait for a better response once my pics are on here?

[CaptainTom]

Seeing the pix and hopefully the exif info will help a lot to identify why they seems "soft" to you.
possible reasons: camera shake, back or front focus, dirty lens, dirty sensor, post processing problems, technique.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Auto focus can be just off a bit when the light levels are so low and with 2.8 there ain't much room for forgiveness. Most likely being opened up to 2.8 on a 2.8 lense is the main problem, solution is to get some 1.4 primes and just open then up to 2.8.

[bradh]

Okay ignore thread until I get home this evening =-)

[Gordon]

If I had to guess, I'd suspect your shutter speed is too low.

If you are hand holding the 200mm you want something around 1/400s to really get sharp results. In a club situation, you'll often be getting 1/20 at f2.8 ISO 1600 if you are lucky.

I have a load of shots I took in a bar, with spot lights on the performer, that are at
1/8s f/1.8 iso1600

If you want to shoot available light, you will probably want to get faster lenses.
1.8 is often too slow for lower end concerts where the stage lighting isn't great.
Again there, you'd probably be around 1/20s f/1.8 ISO1600

f1.8 is almost 2 stops faster than f2.8, (f1.4 actually is) so in those lighting conditions, with a f2.8 @ ISO 1600, you'd be shooting at almost 1/2s or in the second case around 1/5s

Even if you were in a place with a lot more light, you'll still be pushing your luck with a f2.8 lens. I've managed a few shots in nightclubs with a 2.8, but you really need to brace the camera on something and hope nobody moves :)

As someone else mentioned, primes are the way to go.

[bradh]

Here is one example, while I look through some others. Is this just EVERYTHING not being in focus? Someone mentioned this occurs sometimes in low light... which just may be my case in some situations.

Full pic, resized down.


100% crop, then halved in size. But you still get the idea, nothing seems to be clear at all.



Sometimes this seems to occur in daylight, too. Does the autofocus sometimes just bug out and not focus anything? I'll find a soccer shot in a bit, gotta run a quick errand.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Well basically you are not in focus dead sharp on the base player. Also with f 2.8 your depth of field in sharp focus will be less than 6 inches so you may be able to get the guys face in sharp focus if you are focused spot on the mike and he is standing at the mike at the time and not moving around too much.

That is the reason the best shots are where the performer knows you are shooting them at that moment and they pretty much freeze for a second or two for you to nail the shot. IF THE PERFORMER IS Jumping around and moving about, try Metal groups, on a low lit stage you just have to put up with some softness in your shots even at asa 1600.

One thing trying to get across bands as to why they need to do a STUDIO SHOOT with plenty of the right lights, things staged properly etc to get that tac sharp shot.

Going back and looking at a lot of old Film shots of musical groups 90% of the stage shots were soft and the only real tac sharp shots that you will find on the net from say the 60's through the 80's on stage were outdoor concerts where there was plenty of light or the performer had multiple spots on them and they froze for the shot.

[AndrewCCM]

Flash can be your friend if you use it sparingly. For bands, I try to mix just a tad of flash in to help freeze motion.. That in combination with the same basic recommendations here.

Here are a few examples of local bands and also an example where some motion blur can add to an image. LOL

I am about to head out to downtown FTW to shoot a band outside.. burr.. I have a feeling it's going to be a nightmare lighting wise...May not get anything worth keeping.. but hey, they asked me on the spur of a moment.. Nice to get out and shoot anyway. :)