shooting for a model's portfolio

[Dokk]

Awhile back I saw a thread about shooting and what to charge for a model's portfolio. I can't find the thread now but what I'd like to know is that would the shots to shoot and include be the same for a teen model. The young lady that's asking me for pix is 15 and the daughter of a good friend of mine. I've done some shots of her before but she wants me to get her into modeling. I told her that getting into the biz would be on her and her parents but I'd try to take some pix and help her build a basic portfolio. What shots should I include and what direction should I point her at this age?

[srwatters]

First off, she doesn't need a portfolio, she needs an agent and agency. The whole Internet modeling phenomenon is just like the teenager getting off the bus in LA or NYC. Most can't make a living at it or end up doing questionable content for little or no money. If she has the industry type body and face (I don't want to even start that discussion), all she needs as far as images go, is a face shot, 3/4 length body, and full length body shot in age appropriate clothing. Not a ton of makeup and little or no editing. They want to see what she looks like not what some MUA or photographer thinks she should look like.

If she is very lucky, driven, and willing to work hard, she might have a shot. The odds are very small that she will go somewhere without a good agent that is willing to push her. Then she needs to be ready and able to move to one of the major markets. And none of those are in Texas. I am sounding negative, but realistic. The number of successful working models (I'm not talking about beer tub promo girls) in Dallas is very small. It just isn't a big market. Take a look at the Campbell Agency and Kim Dawson web sites. Count the number of local models in their galleries. Divide that by the number of OMP and MM portfolios in the DFW area and you'll quickly see what I mean.

It just isn't a pretty picture... but true. Also make sure the agency is licensed by the state and has real clients. There are a couple in the area making big claims, but really have little or no work. Ask to see tear sheets. Ask to see a client list. And be careful...

JMHO.

[AndrewCCM]

AMEN Scott. As I mentioned in another thread.. There are as many "Models" as there are "Professional Photographers" these days. Now with Myspace and the like, everyone thinks they are. Best to find out from an agency... Nothing wrong with trying...but just be realistic and understand what the current trend is..

[dreemes]

As a photographer that was really looking into getting into photographing models I'm glad I read Scott's post. Because when you think about it, what he says holds for photographers and MUAs. You look at MM, OMP and the such and basically everyone is trading services. Models, MUAs and photographers are all a dime a dozen. Perhaps it boils down to self gratification...

The photographer.... I took that shot
The MUA... I painted that model
The model... I struck that pose

Perhaps the only ones really making any money at modeling on the internet are the companies like OMP that sell higher grade memberships to young people with big dreams.

I know I will go to bed tonight rethinking my approach.

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by dreemes

As a photographer that was really looking into getting into photographing models I'm glad I read Scott's post. Because when you think about it, what he says holds for photographers and MUAs. You look at MM, OMP and the such and basically everyone is trading services. Models, MUAs and photographers are all a dime a dozen. Perhaps it boils down to self gratification...

The photographer.... I took that shot
The MUA... I painted that model
The model... I struck that pose

Perhaps the only ones really making any money at modeling on the internet are the companies like OMP that sell higher grade memberships to young people with big dreams.

I know I will go to bed tonight rethinking my approach.

This is exactly why my "modeling" shooting is merely for creative outlet. I am realistic and realize that if I rent studio space and such, this type of photography will not be a money maker for me. The other thing that will drive you crazy is the amount of flakes out there that drop off the face of the Earth after you think you have something scheduled.

[MarcoLaino]

Dokk,

You are getting some very good advice here. I used to shoot for Elite and Ford and can tell you that you'll have a difficult, if not impossible, time making money shooting "models" portfolios. Now, if you have aspirations of going into fashion photography, then by all means, shoot as many models as you can to get experience and build YOUR portfolio.

Outside the major markets (New York and LA), a "model" is generally a high-school or college age girls/boys who shoot some local commercials, do trunk shows at department stores and "fashion shows" at charity or fundraiser events, and some promotions work. The most anyone is making is extra spending money. READ: They don't have ANY MONEY! And, the agencies make them pay for their own photos for their books. So, you'll have them hitting you up for free shoots all the time. Oh.... yes, the agencies will also hit you up to do free shoots for their "New Faces." Finally, very, very few of them have any talent.

As for OMP and MM, I've only worked with a couple of people off of those sites, and it is really hit or miss. Not surprising since anyone with a credit card can join OMP, so your level of professionalism is at the bottom of the barrel. No shows, late shows, **** work..... that's what you can expect from the vast majority. But, there are a few gems in there, also.

I would advise you to focus on (1) tightly controlling your shoots so that you get the type of material YOU want for YOUR portfolio - be careful with MUAs since they'll want to slather crap all over a model's face and take forever - it's all about them, you know; (2) shooting "lifestyle" fashion - better looking than average people, doing things normal people do - playing with kids, walking the dog in the park, having fun with friends, etc. - exactly what you see in most print ads - that's where you will have an opportunity to make some money if you're good at it!

As for what a "prospective model" will need to show an agency - another poster hit the nail on the head - they want to see the model - simple photos, headshot, full body shot, 3/4 body shot, clothed and in a two piece swimsuit, no/little makeup. Most agencies will fire off a few polaroids in their offices if the "model" shows up without a book and use that to determine if they want to rep them. Then, the agency will send the model out to photogs to build their book.

[Dokk]

I appreciate all the good advice everyone has given me here. What the bottom line is, is that this young lady is the daughter of a friend and I've shot some photos of her lately and her Mom and Dad all of a sudden think she could be a model and want me to "get her in the biz". The first thing I told them is to forget what they see on America's Next Top Model. Remember, only one girl gets a gig at the end and there were thousands that never even got on the show. Modeling is very hard work, is a cut-throat industry, and they don't make the money that people think. I did tell them that since they are friends and this girl is like a niece to me, if they want, I'd shoot a few photos that they could send to some agencies to see where it would go. I was mainly interested in the poses that an agency would want to see in a teen model and if those would be different from an adult model. This, by the way, is the girl that's always run away from cameras and, consequently there aren't really a whole lot of nice pictures of her. She started seeing some of my work and all of a sudden asked, "Hey! Uncle Mike, why don't you ever take any pictures of me?" So, I just jumped all over that opportunity. LOL Anyway, I appreciate the advise and if you all can think of anything else that might help, by all means, post it!

[MarcoLaino]

Hey Dokk,

Remember, first of all, in looking at a new model prospect, the agencies don't really want to see "poses" - what they are looking for initially is more like "model mug shots" - (1) Headshot, full face front-on, no makeup, hair pulled back - smile, no smile; (2) Full body shot, two piece swimsuit, full frontal, sides, back. They want to use these photos just to "inspect" the person - they're looking at bone structure, morphotype, body symmetry, facial symmetry, etc.

Now, where some additional photos could be helpful is ones that show "presence" "personality" "composure" - these are shots that would resemble commercial work that the model might get booked for. For a 15 year old, I'd stick with nice, clean, simple lifestyle imagery. Take her to the park and have her just walk around and have fun - capture her smile and various facial expressions, full body shots, etc. Make sure your backgrounds are "nature only", but keep the backgrounds very simple. Best to shoot with a long lens wide-open so you have a shallow depth-of-field. You'll have the model in sharp focus, but everything else will blur out. The key is not to have her "pose" per-se, but to move naturally and fluidly. Keep her makeup and hairstyling natural-looking and her wardrobe like something a 15 year old would wear on a normal day out.

Finally, I know very few photogs who can "get her in the biz" - the best you can do is shoot some shots and introduce her, or point her, to some reputable agencies. After that, it's all up to her and what the agents think. She'll have to have thick skin - Tyra Banks, for instance, got turned down by 6 or 7 agencies before on finally agreed to rep her.

My best advice would be for you to advise her parents to NOT spend much money on this endeavour - just take her to the reputable agencies and see if anyone has any interest in repping her. If not, keep trying, but be realistic.

I once shot for an agency that had girls fly in from all over the country to shoot with me. They were told to fly to Chicago and spend two weeks at the model apartment as the agency had lots of castings for them to go to. So, they flew in, paid $600 each per week to stay in the model apartment, paid $400 each for their photoshoot with me. Most came with a parent, so each family was dropping more than $2,000 on this one trip. I asked the models how the castings were going and kept getting the same answer - they'd been told that most of the castings had been rescheduled by "the client" and to just stay put in the model apartment until notified. Well after enough of these, I put the pieces together that the agency owner was using these two week "casting calls" flying "models" in as a way of paying the rent on the rowhouse that his agency was based in. He was "booking" nearly $20,000 per month on this scam!

In one hilarious, but sad, instance, one of the models told me she had a casting with Mr. Fujimori of Cosmopolitan Japan - she thought it was the Japanese version of Cosmopolitan magazine. And, the owner of the agency told me to make sure I did not include any American cars in the background of the photos because his "Japanese clients" couldn't use those photos. When I asked the model to see Mr. Fujimori's business card, it looked like the owner of the agency had gone to Chinatown and got someone to pose as "Mr. Fujimori from Cosmopolitan Japan"

Now, to be fair, some of his business was legitimate. But, there are so, so many scammers out there in "the modeling industry" that unless it's a well-recognized name agency, best to avoid them.

If accepted by an agency, she will have to pay for photoshoots to build her book. But, there should NEVER be any kind of up-front fee paid to the agency for any purpose by the prospective model. If they ask her for money upfront - run for the door!

[eleigh07]

Wow! I didn't think that getting into modeling was so complicated... I really want to take on modeling as a part time while in college, are their any good places in the denton-dfw area anyone knows about? or is it even worth trying with all the scams and modeling classes i may encounter?

[srwatters]

Ellen, There are two major agencies in the DFW area; The Kim Dawson Agency and The Campbell Agency. There are a few smaller ones like The Clutts Agency, Linda McAllister Talent, and The Kiser Mathews Agency.

Your best bet is to call and ask for the 'new faces' department. Best of luck.

[dbphotos]

I agree with everything Scott has said. You would be better off paying for a plane ticket to NYC for a day to go to an open modeling call rather than paying some scam "agency" to take your photos.

Try these legitimate agencies. They have information on their sites as to how to submit your photos (they always emphasize non-professional snapshots; head shot, head and shoulders, 3/4 body shot and full body shot).

Ford Models
New York Model Management / LA Models
Storm Models (London)
Elite Model Management

These sites all have information on how to submit photos and the physical requirements of what they are looking for.

Bottom line is you shouldn't have to pay to get on with a legitimate agency. If they ask for money... run away screaming!

This doesn't mean that a local agency may not have some trade show or local advertising gigs for you, but they don't ask for any money, just a cut of what you earn.

Good luck!

[brad]

I hate to disagree, but there are real modeling opportunities here in the DFW area... they aren't big time, they aren't going to lead you to superstardom... but they will pay the bills and you can make a living at it, without taking your clothes off or doing anything else questionable.

If you want the big contracts.. the superstardom.. the supermodel status... to even have a shot you have to be in a big market like LA or NYC... but there is work here for models of all ages that are willing to work.

Now as for Internet models... they can make it big anywhere, but pretty much only if they are willing to travel. There are several "big" names that make a living doing this... but most of them are nude models. Liz Ashley comes immediately to mind.

[eleigh07]

Thanks guys. but no, im not into the whole nude modeling thing.... i prefer to keep all my clothes on!! i just want to do modeling like in my spare time. heck, i dont even know if i meet the whole "modeling face" thing. but i just would like to try it out. i wouldnt care if i wasnt able to get into it. It's nothing i would do to fly to NYC or LA for. It's just something that ever since i was little, I've wanted to give it a shot and just at least see if I even met the requirements for.

[brad]

There is no reason to think you will have to take off your clothes if you don't want to. No *legitimate* modeling agency will ask that of you. My example of nude models were of "Internet Models" that have made a nice living doing that work.. its not for everyone, and I have no more problem with the ones who don't want to do that than I have with the ones who do. Its a personal choice, and I respect that choice and will treat any model with the same level of professionalism.

The idea that you have to have a certain "face" is a myth sold to you by the supermodel world. The percentage of people who are gorgeous in the modeling world are the same as in the real world... there are some that are gorgeous.. that have "The Look".. but there are way more out there that look like every day people. These people get work all the time.. selling things like washing machines and pain killers. Start watching ads both on television and in print... you'll see some of the same people over and over again... they aren't supermodels.. but they are working. You won't notice them unless you look for them.

Celebrity is fleeting... I'd rather have steady work than be popular... I'd rather be rich than famous. (Not that I'm either, but I'm working on it.)

What I'm trying to say is that you don't have to be in LA or NYC to work. But if you want to be "discovered" as a world famous supermodel, it would help.

The advice about finding an agent is good. Be careful of exclusivity, though. You don't want to get locked in with someone unless they are bringing you work.

[carlyerin]

:P on you all. LOL

DON"T go to Clutts- i dont' recommend that as they are MY agency and I haven't heard from them in ages.

Submission overseas is HOT right now. That's just where the market is. Even New York is struggling. However- hitting Miam in the summer (it's "off season" for models) and Chicago in the winter (vice verse...) is a good idea stateside.

DFW: kim is big. they often "sell" their models to larger american agencies in NY Miami or Chicago, so a double percentage is taken. Campbell is doing ok, but struggling to keep up with the NAME kim dawson.

Internet: I make a living. It's not substantial and it's certainly not steady. I DO have to travel out of state OFTEN and i DO have to take off my clothes *gasp*.

There it is. It's out there. The bad news: the economy sucks which makes it even harder for everyone.

Toods!