Polarizing filter and lighting questions

[firebuffgal]

Hello, all! Hope you are enjoying the day.

I am trying out my new polarizing filter. I've never used one before and see now how it will be beneficial to me on my upcoming vacation. I have a few questions and hope you guys can help me out.

Using a Nikon d70s with 17-55mm 2.8 lens on tripod (I know photo is crooked, please look past that). Day was sunny with a few scattered clouds. Sun was not directly overhead but almost. To the left of camera.

Would like to know if you see a difference in these two photos.

Filter at 90 degree right of sun.


Filter at 90 degree left of sun.


Also, I am not happy with the crispness of this photo. Is it because I did not take the images in RAW but the highest JPG setting? Or is this what "digital does?"

And the last question. The above photos were taken in Program Mode and see how overexposed it is especially in the clouds? So I took the following photo in Manual Mode and look how dark it is - maybe I went to far and I guess that could be another topic. Any tips on how to make this photo better? Is it because I have too much of a contrast (dark facade and bright clouds?). Is this a matter of "practice makes perfect?" I don't want to rely on Program Mode for all my "great" shots. But I will default to it if I can't figure out this other stuff, you know?



Thanks in advance for your answers.

[KeithAlanK]

A polarizer's effect changes constantly depending on your angle relative to the sun, so you need to adjust it until the effect is what you want.
With the sun behind you, overhead or in front of you, there will be almost no effect.
Maximum polarization happens when the sun is to one side of you, and this is why people talk about shooting at 90 degrees to the sun.

With digicams on anything but manual mode, your auto-exposure will compensate just as fast as you can rotate the filter so you need to lock the exposure, adjust the polarizer while looking at the effect, then unlock the exposure and take your photo.
I guess you can see the effect through the viewfinder of a DSLR well enough.

The little mark on the filter means almost nothing because of all the variables involved in sun angle and shooting angle, so I just ignore it.

[firebuffgal]

Thanks for your reply, Keith. Your information is appreciated!

FYI...with the sun directly overhead, the polarizer did wonders for the glare on the leaves of the tree. So I am very excited about that aspect. Here is a pic of it at 0 degrees to the sun:



But how do I make this picture better, polarizer or not? Wait for better time of day? Use different settings? What? Photos below are same subject without polarizing filter...
Manual Settings:




Program Mode:

[Debbi]

I've never found a polarizer effective when the sun is overhead. Morning and evenings, it can work wonders! You should absolutely be able to see the effect as you rotate the filter. If you are not seeing anything, the angle isn't right for using the filter. Hope that helps.

[Patti Edens]

Originally Posted by firebuffgal

But how do I make this picture better, polarizer or not? [/IMG]

Alicia, I looked at the EXIF info for your Manual Exposure. I did notice a couple of things that might help you.

As per Opanda this was shot at aperture f16 with Spot metering and no + or - EC. If Opanda is reading this correctly, the problem with the exposure is most likely due to the metering.

For a photo like this, either Matrix (Evaluative for Canon) or maybe Center Weighted Average would be appropriate but not Spot. Spot reads in a very small section of the frame. I hardly ever use Spot. One time when I did recently was to take photos of an Egret (all white bird) against a dark background. If I had not used spot (Partial in my Canon), it would have blown out the bird. There's a bit more info here... http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...etering_01.htm


Also, it might be better to use f8 or so for this shot. With nothing in the foreground or background of interest, you don't really need the added depth of field afforded by using f16. But, this is not a big deal to me. Some people actually test their lenses until they find the "sweet spot" and always try to shoot near that spot if possible. Of course if they are trying to shoot a landscape with fore, mid and background that all need to be in focus, or if they are trying to blur the background on a close-up...all that sweet spot stuff goes out the window.

Great job on all the experimentation. I need to do the same!

[firebuffgal]

Ahhh, Patti - you're a genius! I did have it on spot metering because of another project. Okay, will definitely reshoot these. You have provided me with some great insight. Thank you for taking the time!

Hi, Debbie. It seems to me that the filter works well even with the sun almost over head (see my second post photo). So I'm very happy with the results thus far. Just trying to figure out all the other stuff I "thought" I knew! Thanks for your input.

[lhdvies]

Hi Alicia-Just my thoughts here on the manual settings. For a landscape shot at 22mm you probably could shoot at a slower speed than 1/125 and the exposure would be a bit brighter and fill in the shadows a little more. Of course if you went to f/8 or 11 that would also let in more light and brighten up the shot. IMO these minor adjustments plus the metering mentioned earlier would make the manual setting shot a really nice one.

[firebuffgal]

Thanks, Leon! Will try again!

[Cope]

Originally Posted by Patti Edens

Alicia,
For a photo like this, either Matrix (Evaluative for Canon) or maybe Center Weighted Average would be appropriate but not Spot.
Great job on all the experimentation. I need to do the same!

Alicia, at least for the D200, Nikon says to use center-weighted metering with CP rather than Matrix. Something about the polarizer fooling the matrix and giving bad metering. I haven't found the page in the manual, but Thom Hogan quotes it in his book on the D200.

[merock]

To me, it looks as though the light was directly overhead, and slighty facing you. I can tell this because the tree shadow is coming at you. The house that you are shooting is what one would call backlit which puts it in the shadows. That makes the proper exposure for the home overexposed for the sky, and the proper exposure for the sky underexposed for the house. You need to have the sky and the house balanced and at the same exposure so the house needs to have some light on it. When I shoot houses, I ask the builder or the realtor which way the house is facing before I go out there. If it faces east, and the sun rises in the east, then you know that it will be getting good morning light, but you need to get there at first light. You can also shoot it at dusk if you want to try to get a sunset behind the home, but you will need to bring lights to light up the front as the house will be backlight still. If the home faces west, then you can adjust accordningly. I have a cheap compass that I carry with me in my camera bag always just to see what sun is going to be doing throughout the day.

[venchka]

As previously mentioned, avoid 10am to 4pm (maybe later with daylight saving time) if at all possible. Buy and learn how to use an incident light meter. Good luck.

[firebuffgal]

Thanks for your input, Wayne!

[venchka]

You're welcome.

Carry the polarizer around. Try it on different things. You'd be amazed at what it can do on ordinary things. Removing unwated glare lets you see the real nature of things.

[KdLaneJr]

In your OP you showed us images with the filter 90 degrees to the right of the sun and 90 degrees to the left of the sun.

I've never heard of such a thing. While 90 degrees may be 'optimal' for a specific image with the sun coming from some special place, that is not the best way to adjust your polarizing filter. (yeah, I know, my way's probably not the best either but it has worked for me for years)

With your lens hood off the lens turn the filter until your viewfinder is at its darkest. That is the position your filter needs to be for that particular moment at that particular time of the day. The darkening effect will vary. Don't worry about it, just remember when the viewfinder is at its darkest, the filter is providing its maximum benefit.

You'll have to decide on your own metering modes and whether or not you want to shoot in Av, Tv, manual or something else. While you're getting used to the polarizer ever program mode is fine.

If you have issues with sun flare while your lens hood is off, just put it back on before you capture your images. Don't be afraid to leave your lens hood off while using the polarizer. If you are not experiencing flare or CA, you don't need it on the lens.

Ken

[ZacCarter]

Ken's explanation is spot on, along with wayne.

When the filter is used correctly, and the exposure is spot on you get a nice gradient sky.